Will phantom power hurt tube mics?

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cominginsecond

cominginsecond

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Most tube mics use their own power source, so you obviously don't need phantom power. However, will it hurt either the power supply or the mic if I accidentally plug a tube mic in with the preamp's phantom power on?
 
No, almost all (real) tube mics use an external power supply, which is what is connected to the preamp or board. The phantom power from a board or preamp has no chance of ever reaching the mic itself. You are safe.
 
yes, that can seriously damage your mic. read the manual.
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I did read the manual, and it didn't say anything about it.
 
i use both neumann u87 and u67 into a neve 1073(phantom is always on) and there is never a problem so i will side with littledog in him saying that the mic never sees it.
 
maskedman72 said:
i use both neumann u87 and u67 into a neve 1073(phantom is always on) and there is never a problem so i will side with littledog in him saying that the mic never sees it.
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Am I reading this right? Umm, the U87 and U67 are not tube (they are condenser mics and do require Phantom Power). I would think someone that owns such gear would know what they use. Anyway, no there is no danger with Phantom Power and tube mics. The worse you could do is hurt the Power Supply if there happened to be a spike from the 48vDC for some reason. There are many components between the console and the mic before something will fry the mic components. I've never observed my tube mics and Phantom Power influence. The only time I'm conscience of it is when I have a ribbon mic. I was told that even condenser mics are more susceptible to damage than tube mics while using Phantom Power because tube mics have a separate Power Supply in-between the console and mic.

--AdamLazlo
 
ummm, my teacher at the SAE had a Rode NTK and he didn't use phantom power for it.
He told us that phantom power KILLS tube mics.
 
Mip said:
ummm, my teacher at the SAE had a Rode NTK and he didn't use phantom power for it.
He told us that phantom power KILLS tube mics.
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Better drop that class and get a teacher that actually knows something, given the big bucks you're spending.
 
littledog said:
Better drop that class and get a teacher that actually knows something, given the big bucks you're spending.
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I don't want to start arguing over something this small, but I tend to believe what my teacher has taught me since he studied at the Con. and another University, and has alot of experience. Also the fact that everything else he taught me seems to work bang on.
 
Mip said:
I don't want to start arguing over something this small, but I tend to believe what my teacher has taught me since he studied at the Con. and another University, and has alot of experience. Also the fact that everything else he taught me seems to work bang on.
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Really others might have some horror stories concerning tube mics and Phantom Power. Let me say this; if you don't need Phantom Power, don’t use it. If you can't turn it off then know that there are those that have found issues with tubes and Phantom Power. I don't claim to know it all and I wouldn't want to make claims my butt can't cash. If there are some tube mics that don't like Phantom Power I'd hate to have someone come back and say, "You told me it didn't matter and now my tube mic is ruined!"

Some people will even claim that ribbon mics are not effected by Phantom Power but I remember a guy I truly respected as an Engineer say he's seen a ribbon blow because of Phantom Power. The reason why it's called Phantom Power is because it's only utilized if the mic needs it. Mics are designed to reject Phantom Power if it doesn't need it. If there is a problem with a mic (tube or ribbon) and Phantom Power there is something seriously wrong with the mic to begin with or with the console/pre amp sending the Phantom Power. Doesn't matter if it's from the 30's or the 90's, the mic should be able to handle it. I still won't use it on ribbon mics though.

To wrap up, if you don't have to use Phantom Power, don't use Phantom Power if you think it might be an issue.

--AdamLazlo
 
analogelectric said:
Am I reading this right? Umm, the U87 and U67 are not tube (they are condenser mics and do require Phantom Power). I would think someone that owns such gear would know what they use.
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Umm...I would think he does know what they use, perhaps you did read it wrong analogelectric. The U-67 is most definately a tube mic; it uses the EF86 tube to be specific. Here is a picture of one w/ associated power supply refurbished by Korby Audio, who are renowned in the field of tube mic restoration: http://www.coralsound.com/coral_U67b.html
The U-87 is of course an FET condenser design, and requires phantom power...also, tube mics are still condensers and all condensers require a bias voltage, but not all get it through phantom powering. I believe maskedman72 meant that he uses both the tube and FET mics on a pre w/ phantom always on, and neither one is worse for wear b/c of it.
...anyway, a properly wired tube mic power supply should simply "not see" the phantom voltage, and it would never reach the mic itself.
-Frank
 
Frank P. said:
Umm...I would think he does know what they use, perhaps you did read it wrong analogelectric. The U-67 is most definately a tube mic; it uses the EF86 tube to be specific. Here is a picture of one w/ associated power supply refurbished by Korby Audio, who are renowned in the field of tube mic restoration: http://www.coralsound.com/coral_U67b.html
The U-87 is of course an FET condenser design, and requires phantom power...also, tube mics are still condensers and all condensers require a bias voltage, but not all get it through phantom powering. I believe maskedman72 meant that he uses both the tube and FET mics on a pre w/ phantom always on, and neither one is worse for wear b/c of it.
...anyway, a properly wired tube mic power supply should simply "not see" the phantom voltage, and it would never reach the mic itself.
-Frank
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I didn't mean to include the U67 in there. Yes tube mics are in fact condenser mics and the bias is supplied by the seperate Power Supply. As for the rest I did state pretty much the same. I really shouldn't be a little lit when leaving posts. I have a U67 so I'll swallow my mis-read...

--AdamLazlo
 
NTK is the only tube mic that I have...

the RODE manual does state clearly in bold print that connecting the NTK to a phantom power source will damage the microphone.

maybe they are wrong, or...maybe it's just an NTK thing. but that is where I got my info.
 
Mip said:
I don't want to start arguing over something this small, but I tend to believe what my teacher has taught me since he studied at the Con. and another University, and has alot of experience.
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I'll happily give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's just assume you misheard him.

Anyway, if you (or he) can demonstrate how phantom power could possibly hurt a tube mic powered with an external power supply, you should consider writing it up for the AES. It will certainly be a revolutionary concept, and might just be your ticket to fame and fortune.

We can call it the "Mip Effect".

By the way, what is a "Con. and another University"?
 
littledog - what do you think of RODE's advice?

I've always been pretty damn careful with the NTK...it'd be nice to disregard the warning.
 
NTK is the only tube mic that I have...

the RODE manual does state clearly in bold print that connecting the NTK to a phantom power source will damage the microphone.

maybe they are wrong, or...maybe it's just an NTK thing. but that is where I got my info.
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I just looked at the Rode NTK manual online, and it says nothing about phantom power. Just to double check, I did a "find" on the word "phantom," and it came up with nothing.

Maybe you have an earlier version of the manual? Maybe they determined that phantom power is not worth mentioning in the latest version.
 
It's probably just Rode playing on the safe side.
As a rule, I only turn the "Phantom Menace" on when I need it, and try to avoid using my tube mic in a multi-pre with other condensers.

Mark
 
Markd102 said:
It's probably just Rode playing on the safe side.
As a rule, I only turn the "Phantom Menace" on when I need it, and try to avoid using my tube mic in a multi-pre with other condensers.

Mark
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I just got done saying that Rode did not say this in the manual. How can that be them "playing on the safe side"?
 
I was talking about Wes480's manual. I'm sure he's not seeing things. There must be a couple of different versions of the manual floating around.

Mark
 
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