why no protools forum on this bbs?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jboutelle
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jboutelle

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Just curious. Digidesign seems to be a major player in the home recording space. Are there just not enough people that use protools? If not, why not? I'm just a little surprised because as a newbie, protools and cakewalk are the only software packages you hear about.
-jb
 
There are certainly people on this BBS that use protools, although I am not one of them.

Probably the reason there are not more is because this is HOMErecording.com rather than PROrecording.com Protools, and the hardware required for it, require a $$$$ investment that is out of reach of most of the people on this board.
 
Probably the reason there are not more is because this is HOMErecording.com rather than PROrecording.com Protools, and the hardware required for it, require a $$$$ investment that is out of reach of most of the people on this board.
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That is absolutely positively 100% not true. The combined cost of almost any audio system advocated on this BBS, including Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, etc., plus the hardware, is as much or more than the cost of a Pro Tools LE system.

The reason there is no topic for it here is twofold; first, there is a tremendous amount of dislike for Digidesign in general and Pro Tools in particular here, and second, Digidesign provides excellent forums for its users HERE. I suggest you go there. This forum is more likely to provide Pro Tools criticism than help, with a few notable exceptions.
 
the hardware doesn't seem that costly

Yeah, I know there are user arround. I was just wondering why it didn't have it's own forum, like cakewalk etc etc.

I see used macs with audiomedia III soundcards for 250$, used Digi001 rigs for 500$(8 I/Os!). Considering how much people on this board think is normal to spend on a soundcard, these prices seem pretty middle of the road.

Is it that the software a lot harder to use? That the hardware locks you into the software? Just curious...
 
thanks for link charger

I'd love to here why people are down on protools. I'm still in the initial investigation stage ...
Let the slamming begin!
 
I can give you four reasons off the top of my head:

  1. It's Digidesign. For some reason, people think that Digidesign is the big, bad wolf of the music industry... while other companies, like Steinberg, MOTU, MidiMan, even Apple, are doing everything out of the goodness of their heart.
  2. Plugins. Digidesign created their own format for Pro Tools LE called RTAS. The format is technically sound, and they thought it would catch on like wildfire. They were wrong, and everybody else went with VST, DX, VSTi and DXi. Pro Tools does not support VST or DX... although most plugin manufacturers do sell RTAS versions of their plugs now, you stil can't get any "native" softsynth "instruments" for PTLE.
  3. Expandability. PTLE was originally limited to 24 bit, 48k, 24 audio tracks. Now it's 24/48 and 32 tracks on Windows XP, and 96k if you buy the Digi002. Still, most other systems don't have track limits, so if you need 33 tracks, Pro Tools LE will just piss you off.
  4. Perceived quality. Many people believe that Digidesign's quality for converters and software is less than other companies. Personally, I think it's "garbage in, garbage out" no matter what the hardware/software, and I've heard great stuff and awful stuff recorded on Pro Tools and on other platforms, so this argument to me is pointless.
    [/list=1]
 
Re: thanks for link charger

jboutelle said:
I'd love to here why people are down on protools. I'm still in the initial investigation stage ...
Let the slamming begin!
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I am using ProTools 3.4 (free), not even the v5.x free and sucessfully recording 2 stereo tracks into my old PowerMac 7100 with an AMII card...using SoundDesigner 2.82....
 
gtrplaya, your quote takes me way way back... I can't believe how cool I thought Pro Tools 3.4 (free) was. Back when its main competitor was Studio Vision...
 
PT IS the industry standard and should very well have its own forum here. Home recording guys like us are always trying to record like the pros so why be so down on PT here?

A PT forum would make this site much more informative anf enjoyable for me.
 
Why I didn't decide on a ProTools rig:

1.) You have to buy THEIR converters even if you want to use another company's converters. Without a 192 IO or similar interface device you can't do a thing.

2.) The Control 24 HUI comes equipped with 16 Focusrite pre's... too bad they are Penta/Platinum level. Are they insane? 8K for average preamps and some sliders?

3.) The price has really came down over the years and the power is great--in many ways PT is the only 'smart' platform combining wave edits, plugs, mixing, MIDI in a dedicated hardware-esque package.

4.) Reliance on external computer still bugs me.

5.) Only becomes really interesting when it gets over the 15k mark as a system.

6.) TDM plugs cost a lot.
 
Just about 5 months ago i had a Protools HD2, Control 24, and 96 i/o, equipped with Waves Platinum 3.2, Sony EQ, Real Verb, and a bunch of other really expensive TDM Plugins. Thats around $20,000 or more for a set up like that. I could do 8 inputs at a time unless i bought another expensive outboard converter. Could use the control 24 like a real mixer. Even though i have 4 outboard DBX 165As, 2 LA-4s, and 2 SpectraSonics 610s, a TC Electronics M2000 and Lexicon LXP-15 and 2 PCM60s i could use only 4 of the units because of the number of inputs and out puts i had. It was also buggy as hell (version 6.3). It took me two tries without fail to open a project file without crashing.

Now im using a Native Nuendo 2, Motu 2408 mk3, Alesis HD24, UAD1 a Soundcraft Ghost 24, and basically the same plugins i had before. I dont even think that hits $8000 really. And all i know is my mixes have been 10 times more better or more "professional" than anything i had with that protools system.

Now maybe if i was running an SSL board and was fully equipped with 96 i/os, it might be a little more worth my time to use a full Protools bundle.

Thats how it is with me, might be different for other people.

Danny
 
In general, if you are looking at a PT setup you should also consider the possibilities of a Mackie DXB (w/ UAD-1 cards x2 installed and Waves Diamond), plus a Mackie HDR 24/96 (x2 if you got the money for 48 tracks), and about 3-4 Focusrite ISA 428's with the AD card option.

What you get for your 25,000+ bucks:

-24 or 48 channels of 24 bit, 48khz recording

-Full automation, mixer recall, no huge analog patchbays

-Run plugins on the fly off the DXB... good ones too

-Good wave editing on the HDR

-12 to 16 channels of Focusrite ISA preamps, including an analog insert/return to other analog gear before digital conversion, and soft knee "tape" style compression that prevents clipping

-Dual 15" monitors on the DXB

-Visual editing off the HDR with addition of a monitor

-DXB and HDR integrate pretty seamlessly

-No computer to buy or maintain

-Pretty reliable: I've only had a few HDR crashes but zero data loss... sometimes the crashes were caused by punch ins... seems to be a bug but occured only three times in a year (twice in same day though)
 
"PT IS the industry standard and should very well have its own forum here."

It is NOT

Not when the vast majority of top engineers need to be dragged kicking and screaming into any studio running it.

It is the Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences standard, and sold to them as the be all end all, delivering to digidesign customers to start their own home studios

you dont make standards out of things like this

hell theres guys who will debate to the end of days whether Studer vs Ampex vs MCI vs 3M for their favorite two inch machine

two inch is a standard, but not any one brand

even among the studer guys they will argue 800 vs 827 and all manner of stuff

" PT is the industry standard" is a line fed to the readers of EQ magazine and in any ad space digidesign can disguise as an article, like the infamous Rolling Stones one where they cut the feet off their own best customers

no matter how many times they repeat it and no matter how many times an engineer to be reads it off the back of a Korn Flakes cereal box, it just aint so

all that doesnt mean that thousands of crappy albums havent been recorded, mixed or edited on it though, they certainly have
 
tools was the first product that came to market , and for many years had no competition. also early on - i came across a lot of studio owners that were frankly computer illiterate. so many just followed the herd, and spent huge amounts of money. same mentality as a guy i knew many years ago who asked me if he should spend a quarter million on a digital multitrack in the 80's.
i advised against spending that kind of money due to rapid tech change. he didnt listen. then wailed to me a few years later he lost a ton of money on this proprietary technology solution. this is why i try and tell newbies the same today. watch your spending and investing in proprietary technology solutions that cost big money. its rare you recoup your investment.
particularly as studio rates are so low.
now with the proliferation of fast amd athlons there are more affordable multitrack software solutions.
for example ntrack, multitrackstudio.com , or powertracks that i use.
i invite anyone to take the software i recommend for a test drive.
and compare.
in summary - the market has changed, and the shrewd studio owner
doesnt need to spend lots of money.
 
"Not when the vast majority of top engineers need to be dragged kicking and screaming into any studio running it."

If they embraced the program rather than resenting it these "top engineers" you speak of would have a much easier time. Pro Tools is just a tool that pros use and if you're not well versed in it you will have problems. It's like the mechanics that resent using metric tools (far fetched example). If an engineer is talented and skilled it wont matter what software is in front of him as long as he knows it inside and out.

The point of this thread isnt about why you guys didnt invest in a PT system or if you like it or hate it. The point is that there are MANY "home recording" guys like myself that would find a PT forum on this site very useful. Thats all.
 
pipelineaudio said:
" PT is the industry standard" is a line fed to the readers of EQ magazine...
Click to expand...

and Tape Op, Future Music and every other magazine I've read. At least 90% of the Producers and AEs interviewed use PT for editing. They might not mix through it but they use it for one reason or another.
 
I'm not a Pro Tools user. I am quite happy with Adobe Audition, and I've been using it since Cool Edit Pro 1.2 days.

Pro Tools is the "industry standard" for the same reason Microsoft is: they tie everything together so that if you want one part you end up having to buy it all. I ain't rich, and I have gear in my studio that dates back to the early '70's. My practice has always been to shop veeeerrrry carefully for bargains that do the job and are compatible with what I already have. Digidesign kicks that philosophy into the gutter: "our way or the highway." I am not prepared to buy a software program that requires me to buy their hardware and their plug-ins and their control surfaces and so on. Even Microsoft, for all their predatory practices, can boast of a huge pool of independent supporters who write programs to run on Windows. With Pro Tools you buy from the company store. That may be good for Digidesign but it ain't good for me. This is quite apart from the quality of their goods: but to say theirs is good is not the equivalent of saying that what I use is bad. There are a couple of small Pro Tools studios here in my area: I have heard that people like my results better. That's not scientific, but it means there's no reason to invest in PT, either.
 
manning1 said:
tools was the first product that came to market
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Wasn't Sonic Solutions out around the same time?


Anyway, just say no to Alsihad! :p
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Why I didn't decide on a ProTools rig:

1.) You have to buy THEIR converters even if you want to use another company's converters. Without a 192 IO or similar interface device you can't do a thing.
.
Click to expand...


not true. You can use any converter that has an ADAT optical out.
 
Oh lord. I'm not going to start this whole debate again.:)

I can only state: I used different programs (Cool Edit, Cubase, Cakewalk, Nuendo, Pro Tools) and Pro Tools is my absolute favorite. It is versatile, very handy and IT IS THE INDUSTRY STANDARD, if you like it or not.

Nuendo, Cubase SX etc. are great programs, so I don't want to bash them. I just wonder why some ppl here are really keen to bash Pro Tools? Ridiculous.

anyway,, I have a Pro Tools forum, as you can see in my nickname. all interested: come and join us!
 
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