Why mixdown to a separate cassette deck? (TASCAM 414 MKII)

  • Thread starter Thread starter crzydrummerdude
  • Start date Start date
C

crzydrummerdude

New member
Hey, I'm new here, and to recording, for that matter. I've been reading the articles on homerecording.com and it sounds like for Tascam PortaStudios you need (or should???) have a separate cassette deck to "mixdown" to? Why is that?

Also, I was talking to someone who used to own a TASCAM 414 MKII, and he said that since it records at double the speed of a normal tape deck, when you play it on a normal tape deck it will sound really sslloooowww. Is this true?

I also bought a pair of Samson C02 Condenser mics to mic my drums. Do these need phantom power? I really dont feel like spending another $50 on a phantom power supply, but I guess I have to if it won't work without it.

This is a little off-topic, but someone told me that plugging a guitar (even through the Hi-Z guitar input) directly to the portastudio will make it sound like crap, and that I should just mic the amp instead. Anybody have advice?

Thanks a lot.
 
Everything you've read and heard and been told by your friends is true!

Don't you trust anybody? :D

You will need a separate cassette deck, CD recorder or computer with a sound card installed that has a line level input as a mix-down deck.

You tapes on the Portastudio record at twice the normal running speed of a consumer cassette deck to net you better fidelity and as well, with your machine, you don't flip the tape over like you would a pre-recorded cassette.

It uses the whole width of the tape to record 4 tracks in one pass. Not only would your tape sound slow, it would also be missing half of its information and possibly be playing back-wards too on a home cassette deck.

Yes, you will need to drop the 50 bones on an external phantom power supply to connect with your Portastudio plus a few more on additional cables and adapters.

About your off topic question which actually isn't off topic because your post has many questions on different topics anyway! :eek: :cool:

Mic'ing a guitar cabinet is the better way to capture the sound of an electric guitar or get a good quality Direct Box or "DI" box for short that will better match the electrical differences between your guitar and the line level input that is looking more for things like keyboards and drum machines to be plugged into those connections.

DI boxes also might set you back 30 - 50 more bones plus an extra cable or two.

Home recording is a great hobby and can be a lot of fun if you take the time to learn about the art of recording and playing well as a musician which is 90% of the battle.

Cheers! :)
 
Alright, I guess I'll need a tape deck then. It would help if they told you that in the user manual, but whatever.

If I wanted to use a mini disc recorder, which kind should I get? Could anyone give me a link to the right kind of recorder to use for this? Also, mini discs are playable on regular cd players, right? I'm pretty sure they are.
 
Also, which kind of tape deck should I get? One of those cheap portable ones or this one that I found:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-FskWBe...00&id=morephotos&pi=2&i=158TCWE475&display=XL

What kind of cable do I use to connect the Portastudio to the input of the tape deck?

And since I'm not recording on to the cassette thats built in to the portastudio, what do I use that tape deck for?

Last one. If the machine can only record to its internal tape deck, how do I record to the external one? Do I do it in the same way? Press record then start playing??

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Mixing w/ seperate Cassette deck

Please share with us Mr.Ghost, what the procedure is, and in detail how to mix down to a separate cassette deck from a Tascam 414 (4 track). I think this gentlemen needs a little more assistance on this technique.

. . . especially since moi' has never got the hang of itl!!! LOL. My cassette to cassette mixes always sound like crap, and I end up having a friend of mine do my mixes .. .sad but true.
 
Re-read page 5 of your owner's manual.

On that page it shows you in pictures and in print the necessity for a two track recorder to master your multi-track tape down to a two track recorder which can be a cassette deck, a dat deck, a mini-disc recorder, a CD recorder or a computer equipped with a compatible soundcard.

They don't mention a cassette deck specifically because the choice is up to you as to what format you wish to use to master onto.

As to your question about mini-disc recorders and their discs; you can not play a mini-disc on a regular CD player.

Mini-disc is a proprietary data storage medium that comes permanently encased in a protective sleeve to prevent the small disk from being damaged by scratches and finger prints.

I own 3 mini-disc machines myself and like the format for its convenience features but it is a compressed data format similar to mp3 so it is not the first choice for quality sound storage.

You 414mkII does actually have a specific guitar input which may offer similar results to a lower end DI box so give it a shot before you go out and buy anything else to replace it. It might sound decent or not. Let your ears be the judge.

Cheers! :)
 
Oh I see. It doesn't explain how to do it, though, it only says thats where it records to.
 
crzydrummerdude,

I am short on time right now to explain the whole recording and mastering process to you today. Sorry.

Perhaps some other members here can help you out a bit with some of your other questions.

You can also try posting your questions in the newbie section of the board here, where more volunteers are standing by to take your call! :cool:

Cheers! :)
 
The basic of Mixing to cassette!

Yeah 'Crazydrummer', We gotta give The Ghost a break today. . .He has been reply to my mundane and brain dead questions all morning too!

But, don't forget about us Mr Ghost!!!

Hopefully, when you have more time you can give us a quick 101 on how to Mix down from a Tascam 414, 424 type portastudio to a cassette or standalone cd burner. . . Thanks again man!
 
You have a computer right (I'm guessing you do cause you're here, but you may be somewhere else, :) but anyway)
If you have a computer with a soundcard then why not use the computer to mix down to? I mean you're on cassette to start with so the noise you get in a consumer grade soundcard shouldn't be a factor.

You need one of those leads that at one end have RCA plugs, to plug into the line out of your 4 track, and at the other end a stereo mini jack (headphone type) to plug into the line in on your computer's sound card.

Then you'll need some software to record with.. Since you are only mixing down you could try a free program like Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net) or if you aren't using Windows XP protools Free (http://www.protools.com/ptfree).

By using a computer you will be able to burn songs straight to CD. When I use my 4 track for demos I often use the computer to add effects etc, then burn straight to CD. I've also used my minidisc player to mix down to, which is a lot less stuffing around than the computer.
 
Oh I forgot to say:
The guitar input works alright for basses, and works ok for clean guitar sounds. If you are are using stomp boxes (I use a Boss OS-2) you will get an absolutely crappy fuzzy sound, and in that case you are much better off micing an amp.
 
More on the Mixing process here --> Mixing 101

Personally, I would not have selected a cassette deck as a mixdown unit - there are much better (and higher!) fidelity options available -- but you have to work with what you got!
 
Hey Crazy drummer!

I was just wondering how those Samson co2 condenser mic were working for you, . .how's the quality of the sound? They are dirt cheap for condensers, and I was thinking of getting a pair?
 
Thanks MichaelM, but I really don't want to use my computer, for confusion reasons. I'll just keep it simple with my tape deck. Once I get the hang of how to use everything, I will think about it. I really don't know what a sound card is or if i have one. Thanks for the info.

Blue Bear, I know it's not that great of quality, but it's simple to use and understand, so that's why I chose it. I'm not looking for great sound anyhow, just something to record my drumming on and listen to my progress. Thanks for the link.

StudioDrum, I haven't gotten the condensers yet. I ordered them on the internet last Wednesday, so I expect they'll be here by Monday or so. I'm also still waiting for the Tascam, but that will be here in a few days. I'll let you know how they are when I get a chance to try them out, I'm anxious as to how they sound also. Got the pair of them new for $75, not too bad.
 
Thats cool, I mixed all my old stuff down to my minidisc player for the same reason. BTW - If your computer has speakers attached, the sound card is the thing the speakers are plugged in to. Just about all have a line in, so you can use it to mix down to when you feel the need.
 
Samson C02 mics

Hey crzydrumer!!!
I was just wondering if you ever got the chance to use those those Samson co2 condenser mics-- I was wondering how they were working for you, . .how's the quality of the sound? They are dirt cheap for condensers, and I was thinking of getting a pair?
 
You can plug yer guitar into any of the 1/4" input jacks on the 414mkII,...

and that would be perfectly acceptable.

The dedicated guitar input on the 414mkII is nothing more than an extra 1/4" input jack, with an associated extra "pad", [trim-pot/resistor], to handle a somewhat hotter signal you might get off electric guitar. Otherwise, there's no difference, and any of the other 1/4" input jacks are perfectly fine to plug guitar into.

As far as sound quality of plugging the guitar directly into the mixer, as opposed to using an amp and a mic,... the general concensus is that it's easier to get the desired sound from the guitar/amp/mic combination, than it would be from a straight DI connection from the guitar to the mixer.

However, if you work at it enough, you may still get a decent sound from DI'ing the guitar to the mixer, so don't rule this out completely, and some experimentation may be in order, to find what works best for you. Also, using a guitar distortion or effects pedal or processor is a way to help spice up your DI guitar sound, by going from guitar, to pedal, and then directly to the board.

There's another "stealth" technique that I almost always use when DI'ing a guitar into a mixer, and that is to "dual" feed a mic that's trained closely on the the body of the guitar, and this helps pick up the twangy, snappy ambience of the guitar, that's primarily lost when you DI.

You'd mix the close-mic of the guitar body & strings with the DI sound, and you can get an acceptably decent guitar sound. I know this, because it's the technique I use most when recording electric guitar. I get a very satisfying sound from DI + close-mic, and I hardly ever use an amp to record.

There's what you hear, what you read, what "everybody" does, or "seems" to do, but there's no single "right" way to record electric guitar,... and there's more than one way to "skin that cat".

There are, however, a few outright "wrong" ways to do things, and that mostly involves gross mismatch of levels & impedance, and/or red-lining the inputs and channels of your Porta-, to the point of blowout & failure.

However, restated, it's perfectly acceptable to plug an electric guitar into ANY of the 1/4" input jacks on a Portastudio. The "dedicated" guitar input was put on the 414mkII and the Porta02mkII more as a convenience, or at best, as a marketing gimmick to sell more mkII's.

Funny, how the 424mkII and 424mkIII have no "dedicated" guitar input, eh? Neither do the scores of Tascam Portastudios that precede the 424 Series, model numbers too numerous to mention.

Think about it.
 
Close Mike Cool Idea

A Reel Person said:
There's another "stealth" technique that I almost always use when DI'ing a guitar into a mixer, and that is to "dual" feed a mic that's trained closely on the the body of the guitar, and this helps pick up the twangy, snappy ambience of the guitar, that's primarily lost when you DI.

You'd mix the close-mic of the guitar body & strings with the DI sound, and you can get an acceptably decent guitar sound. I know this, because it's the technique I use most when recording electric guitar. I get a very satisfying sound from DI + close-mic, and I hardly ever use an amp to record.

.
Click to expand...

Hi, sounds like a cool idea. I wonder, do you generally record the direct guitar and the close mike together on the same track? Or do you give each a separate track?? Sorry if this is a dumb question from yet another novice. Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top