Why figure 8

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Jack Hammer

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What are the benefits vs. burdens (drawbacks) of a figure 8 pattern mic. When are they used and for what purpose?
 
I think that is a very good question. Personaly I have steered away from them (I have bad rooms). I would think if you had a great/awsome room it could come in very handy though. To me that is the thing. if your room sounds great you would capture it better with the figure 8 mic. I can also see some other uses also but, I am a fool compared to many here so I hope someone will give us the pro answer.

Later
F.S.
 
Well, for one thing, the figure 8 pattern is the natural response pattern of a lot of ribbon mics. This means a lot of techniques were evolved for using it, and since it's easy to achieve on a variable pattern (2 capsule) condenser, they threw it in. It is the ONLY pattern that can be used for the side mic in a mid/side stereo pair. It has the strongest null (off axis attenuation in the 'waist' of the pattern) of any directional pattern. It picks up almost as much ambience as an omni, but it also displays a strong proximity effect (low boost) while the omni displays none. There are probably a few things I forget, but off the top of my head, those are the main reasons for a figure 8 pattern.

Scott
 
Room ambience sounds (pun intended) logical however, loops? What is it about figure 8s that is useful for recording loops?
 
What is it about figure 8s that is useful for recording loops?
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I'm guessing that tdukex said that because a figure 8 pattern is "loopy" looking, like a mobius strip.
 
So when you use a figure-8 pattern mic BY ITSELF, do you use the capsule parrallel to the source or perpendicular?
 
Figure 8 gives you perhaps the best option if you need to "reject" something closeby.

If you talk straight in to the diaphragm of either side of the mic, it picks it up really well. Try talking to it's side, and you hear almost nothing.

This is a great feature if you are trying to record someone who insists on tracking their vocals and guitar at the same time and you need some isolation. Position it creatively to block out a third voice/instrument by placing it directly in the mic's null. You could use a couple of hypercards, but they generally don't work as well.
 
I thought when using figure-8 mics in a M/S setup the figure-8 is placed at 90 degrees to the source........
 
Benefits

* Pick up great from sides and reject from the front
* Great for recording two sources to a single track.
* Solves phase problems very well
* Sounds very intimate
* Great for recording two toms by putting inbetween
* Can be used to get a great stereo image in a MS configuration
* Sounds in many cases better then a X-Y but still benefits from the controled phase issues



Burdens:
* Once you get it on tape you can't fix a bad blend
* A good room is very important for the MS configuration.
* Requires correct (exact) positioning to achieve the proper blend and balance.

Riley,
The Figure 8 is positioned sideways to the source while the cardioid is facing the source
 
In case there's still any confusion, it should be pointed out that the sound recorded on the back side of the mic is not identical to the front. In addition to polarity reversal, often there is a different eq response as well (like in the Royer 121).
 
To comment on DigitMus's reply, I don't know if fig. 8 is easiest to achieve, but I'd say getting good results with it certainly isn't the easiest to achieve; especially when trying to achieve good results with it at "budget" prices. And when it comes to pencil-style small diaphragm mics with a fig. 8, I'd say there's only a hand-full that have even attemped it, and even less who've acheive it with good results.
 
Thought I'd clarify myself and mention that I'm talking about the manufacturing, and NOT the use of the end user. If that makes things any clearer...
 
Shailat?

Shailat? or anyone who wishes to comment. if I wanted to use say... two at-4033's back to back or in some cases a rode nt4 (say as a drum overhead) couldn't I get the best of both worlds? low phase problems and the ability to stereo track and blend?

F.S.
 
cominginsecond said:
I'm guessing that tdukex said that because a figure 8 pattern is "loopy" looking, like a mobius strip.
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You are correct, sir. I was being loopy:D

I have used figure 8 to mic acoustic guitar. My theory is that, if placed correctly---about 18"- 24 " out in front of the guitar, this pattern picks up both the sound from the neck and the bout. And although there is still some proximity effect, it is not as strong as cardioid, and at the distance listed you get a strong but complex guitar sound without the boominess often associated with close micing. You will get some room, but not as much as you would in omni.
 
Re: Shailat?

Freudian Slip said:
Shailat? or anyone who wishes to comment. if I wanted to use say... two at-4033's back to back or in some cases a rode nt4 (say as a drum overhead) couldn't I get the best of both worlds? low phase problems and the ability to stereo track and blend?

F.S.
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How would you place them towards the kit if they are back to back?

If you need a good blend and good stereo image and low phase problems there are quite a few stereo configurations to choose from with each giving a different sound depending on your need, ensemble,room etc...

If I was starting out as a newbie and had to record a kit using OH's I would start with a X-Y configuration for low phase and focused stereo image and blend. From there you can advance to a different configuration.
 
Re: Re: Shailat?

Shailat said:

How would you place them towards the kit if they are back to back?

If you need a good blend and good stereo image and low phase problems there are quite a few stereo configurations to choose from with each giving a different sound depending on your need, ensemble,room etc...

If I was starting out as a newbie and had to record a kit using OH's I would start with a X-Y configuration for low phase and focused stereo image and blend. From there you can advance to a different configuration.
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I was thinking more of the nt4 as a drum overhead and the back to back as for a vocal quartet or something.

I can't see using back to back as an overhead either. and it wouldn't work for between tom's. thats a place the figure 8 would win hands down.

Maybe I should ask... what can I do with a figure 8 that I can't do with a multiple mic set up? Is the figure 8 somthing I really need to have in my mic locker? (baring I get a killer deal I can't pass up)


F.S.
 
Re: Re: Re: Shailat?

Freudian Slip said:


I was thinking more of the nt4 as a drum overhead and the back to back as for a vocal quartet or something.

I can't see using back to back as an overhead either. and it wouldn't work for between tom's. thats a place the figure 8 would win hands down.

Maybe I should ask... what can I do with a figure 8 that I can't do with a multiple mic set up? Is the figure 8 somthing I really need to have in my mic locker? (baring I get a killer deal I can't pass up)


F.S.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt use a back to back for a vocal quartet. A lot of problems with a back to back have to do with Off axsis coloration and phase problems.
Bottom line is you can get along just fine with out one in your locker. For me its a "special task" mic and some mics have a switchable option were you can choose the configuration like the C 414... you don't have to buy a special mic :).

I would prefer 2 good cardioids then one Cardioid and one - 8.
 
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