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SpiZZaa
New member
Best suggestion yet.
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ZedEssex
New member
Could be worse!
I disagree with whomever said the the musicianship is poor. These guys are decent musicians they just aren't recording engineers! The biggest problem I can hear with these mixes is that the internal balance of the tracks are way off. The guitars are pulled way back to keep them from overwhelming the vocals and the drums sound tiny when they should be monster huge! If I had to deliver this as demo to someone important and I had a short amount of time to do one thing that would improve the mix I would go into the guitar tracks with a parametric eq and reduce the frequencies between 2khz and 4khz. I could then turn the guitars up without stepping on the vocals.
I see this time and time again, people crank up the mid range on vocals or have the vocals so high up above the rest of the mix that it sounds amateurish!
While you're at it,...it might not hurt to take some bottom end out of the guitars as well so you can hear the bass guitar as a distinct instrument, if you're really opposed to that try boosting the bass guitar around 400Hz.
What I am hearing is not terrible for a first attempt at recording, once you gain experience you will start to automatically do things during the recording process that will make the mixing process easier. Once you learn these things the sound wil improve.
You just gotta keep workin' it!
I disagree with whomever said the the musicianship is poor. These guys are decent musicians they just aren't recording engineers! The biggest problem I can hear with these mixes is that the internal balance of the tracks are way off. The guitars are pulled way back to keep them from overwhelming the vocals and the drums sound tiny when they should be monster huge! If I had to deliver this as demo to someone important and I had a short amount of time to do one thing that would improve the mix I would go into the guitar tracks with a parametric eq and reduce the frequencies between 2khz and 4khz. I could then turn the guitars up without stepping on the vocals.
I see this time and time again, people crank up the mid range on vocals or have the vocals so high up above the rest of the mix that it sounds amateurish!
While you're at it,...it might not hurt to take some bottom end out of the guitars as well so you can hear the bass guitar as a distinct instrument, if you're really opposed to that try boosting the bass guitar around 400Hz.
What I am hearing is not terrible for a first attempt at recording, once you gain experience you will start to automatically do things during the recording process that will make the mixing process easier. Once you learn these things the sound wil improve.
You just gotta keep workin' it!
Drummerbones
New member
Not sure I can add much to the coversation except another dose of reality. Patients young grasshopper, I've been recording and mixing for 15 years now and my recordings still don't sound quite as good as a professional album. They probably never will. Something to remember:
Pro albums benefit from the best of everything. Producers, tracking engineers, assistants, the best gear money can buy with proper control & recording rooms. Not to mention a plethera of instruments, guitars, basses, drums, different cymbals, 7 different cowbells ( oh yes, I went there
) to God knows what else. Then it's all mixed by a top notch mixer and mastered by the best in the business.
And you're wonding why the 1st three songs you've EVER recorded don't compete with that!?
Come back to Earth SpiZZaa...we've been there.
Don't feel like you've failed because you haven't. You just need to realize that there's a long, long road ahead of you and you must commit to the journey if you really want to record and produce music. This is truly an art form and, to make matters even more difficult, there are few right or wrong answers; you must experience the process time and time again while following "general guide lines", not rules, and eventually you'll build a respectable tool chest full of tools and tricks of the trade. Then one day when you come across a drum track that requires a medium size hammer and nails, you'll be able to reach in your tool chest and pick out the best hammer for the job. Make sense?
Wow, that got kinda deep there. I almost lost me on that one...
Pro albums benefit from the best of everything. Producers, tracking engineers, assistants, the best gear money can buy with proper control & recording rooms. Not to mention a plethera of instruments, guitars, basses, drums, different cymbals, 7 different cowbells ( oh yes, I went there
) to God knows what else. Then it's all mixed by a top notch mixer and mastered by the best in the business. And you're wonding why the 1st three songs you've EVER recorded don't compete with that!?
Come back to Earth SpiZZaa...we've been there.Don't feel like you've failed because you haven't. You just need to realize that there's a long, long road ahead of you and you must commit to the journey if you really want to record and produce music. This is truly an art form and, to make matters even more difficult, there are few right or wrong answers; you must experience the process time and time again while following "general guide lines", not rules, and eventually you'll build a respectable tool chest full of tools and tricks of the trade. Then one day when you come across a drum track that requires a medium size hammer and nails, you'll be able to reach in your tool chest and pick out the best hammer for the job. Make sense?
Wow, that got kinda deep there. I almost lost me on that one...
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SpiZZaa
New member
Thanks for all the input guys its really helpful. I will be making future post with the sound redone and maybe and hopefully the same people who listened to the first mix will listen to the second so you can see how far ive come
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
Did... Did you shout "Mortal Kombat" in the middle of D.F.B.B.LK? That's awesome!
Yeah, the way I (and I'm sure others) improve our mixes is to do the best we can with them, post them to the mp3 clinic, and apply the lessons we learn their to our next mix.
Also, reading the advice other people are getting there helps too.
Yeah, the way I (and I'm sure others) improve our mixes is to do the best we can with them, post them to the mp3 clinic, and apply the lessons we learn their to our next mix.
Also, reading the advice other people are getting there helps too.
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tojo
New member
Focus on tighter playing, and a better "sound". Well played / good sounding songs mix themselves. They really do.
Great call. My brother is a prime example of this. He doesn't have any good microphones or gear where as I do. His songs sound amazing, even through a macbook mic. I have condensers and an interface and logic and mine don't compare.
its about the song itself first.
Drummerbones
New member
As wise men often say, the most important part of the chain is the source, then the microphone, then the preamp, then...
Point is, the source has to be good or everything after it will only be as good, no matter what you do, as where the audio originated from.
***insert theory & techniques of polishing a terd here***
Point is, the source has to be good or everything after it will only be as good, no matter what you do, as where the audio originated from.
***insert theory & techniques of polishing a terd here***
Anomaly Design
New member
In terms of metal the musicianship it pretty tight. I'm not sure what all these non-metal heads are talking about. But the sweep guitar part has no breathing room. Already mentioned, the guitars in general weren't chewing my ears off. The whole mix is generally thin. I'd say this is more of a recording issue.
NL5
Unpossible!
Well, I never said the musicianship was poor. The OP asked why his stuff didn't sound pro. I am one of the only people that actually answered his question. The playing isn't terrible, but it's not pro either. I only listened to the first track on the myspace site, and it was pretty loose, and the tones were an even bigger problem. Is it a good first attempt at recording? Certainly. Is it anywhere near pro sounding? No.
I would suggest the OP move to the mix clinic, and instead of asking why he doesn't have a pro level recording, start looking for ways to make his recordings better.
Pro albums benefit from the best of everything. Producers, tracking engineers, assistants, the best gear money can buy with proper control & recording rooms. Not to mention a plethera of instruments, guitars, basses, drums, different cymbals, 7 different cowbells ( oh yes, I went there
You left out 90% of the "Pro" sound formula - the musicians. Again, it really is 90% of the battle, and barely gets a mention around here. Pro albums sound pro, because they are done by pro musicians. 90% of an albums sound happens before any sound hits a mic.
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reklus
New member
There is no such thing as "Pro Sound"
Pro sound just means sound that is made by people who make money.
You guys, if you put on a good show, will make money.
You fit right in to an established genre with a good sound already.
Your recordings are more "Pro Sound"-ey than a lot of professionally released albums.
What a lot of folks here are talking about is perfection and also some folks who like to lecture about how to improve the music haven't made a good song in their lives.
Keep going, this is pretty fucking great.
Pro sound just means sound that is made by people who make money.
You guys, if you put on a good show, will make money.
You fit right in to an established genre with a good sound already.
Your recordings are more "Pro Sound"-ey than a lot of professionally released albums.
What a lot of folks here are talking about is perfection and also some folks who like to lecture about how to improve the music haven't made a good song in their lives.
Keep going, this is pretty fucking great.
NL5
Unpossible!
I guess that could be the definition. To clarify, in my context, and I assume the OP's as well, I am referring to major label releases. There is no single "sound", but in general they are much more refined than your typical home studio, or even indie release. And to clarify some more, I never said that was a goal that needed to be obtained. Some of my favorite recordings are lo-fi indie releases, that are far from "pro" sounding. The OP was looking for a "pro" sound.
Again, I guess that depends on your definition of what a "pro" sounding album is. Neither I, nor the OP, felt the recordings he posted were at a commercial level.
A bit presumptuous, no?
Also, on another tangent. I am a firm believer in the fact that rock and roll is not supposed to be perfect. However, if your going to play metal, the whole point is speed and perfection. Otherwise, it ends up a sloppy mess (not referring to the OP's tracks BTW). It is also the genre that tends to have some of the best musicians in it, and some of the worst - at least in my experience. The odd thing is, they great ones usually don't realize it, and the ones with the super egos really can't hang. I've always found that to be kind of odd.
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Definitely needs more bottom end; way too midrangy for the genre. This may help:
Angel of Vengence Demo
They needed a quick 3 song demo, and I did this a couple of weeks ago. Not my best work, but it may point you in the right direction. If I had more time, I'd probably add a little more click to the kick, and cleaned up a little muddiness overall. But, considering we recorded and finished 3 songs in two days (plus a few hours for mixing), they were very happy with the results.
Angel of Vengence Demo
They needed a quick 3 song demo, and I did this a couple of weeks ago. Not my best work, but it may point you in the right direction. If I had more time, I'd probably add a little more click to the kick, and cleaned up a little muddiness overall. But, considering we recorded and finished 3 songs in two days (plus a few hours for mixing), they were very happy with the results.
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reklus
New member
I find this to be the case in a lot of situations.
There's actually a term for it, but the basic idea is that the really great tend to think of themselves as being average and not really understanding why others think so highly of themselves.
And @NL5, I didn't intend my comments to be directed at you, more the attitude that a lot of folks have about "pro."
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MCI2424
New member
I did not sound professional until my second time recording. I think you are rushing it a bit.
Steve Henningsgard
New member
One piece of advice that I don't see thrown around a lot is that you shouldn't dwell on past recordings. Most of the sound is already set in stone when you record it: mixing can only do so much. Focus on doing better *next* time, not fixing what you've already done, and always learn from your mistakes. Eventually, you'll find your recordings keep getting better, as there are around a million mistakes we all make at first. Just start hacking away at 'em!
Ronan
New member
The things the pros have on you is experience and better gear. (the former being far more important.
I like this sort of stuff. I turned off Meshuggah to listen to your tracks.
A couple things. Direct recording of digital amp modeled guitars butcher mixes. It takes a ton of skill to be able to make them work. I have mixed hundreds of albums (lots of them heavy) and DI'ed faked amps is probably the most difficult thing I am faced with in mixes. Try and get your hands on an SM57 and a Boogie dual rectifier and watch how much your mixing skills improve.
A bit of practical advice: there is way too much midrange on the mixes (and I am listening on a laptop). Go in and see where you can cut around 200-600 Hz on individual instruments and see what that does for you. Unless you are talking stoner rock, the heaviness of metal comes from the clean punch.
Overall pretty damn good for a first recording.
I like this sort of stuff. I turned off Meshuggah to listen to your tracks.
A couple things. Direct recording of digital amp modeled guitars butcher mixes. It takes a ton of skill to be able to make them work. I have mixed hundreds of albums (lots of them heavy) and DI'ed faked amps is probably the most difficult thing I am faced with in mixes. Try and get your hands on an SM57 and a Boogie dual rectifier and watch how much your mixing skills improve.
A bit of practical advice: there is way too much midrange on the mixes (and I am listening on a laptop). Go in and see where you can cut around 200-600 Hz on individual instruments and see what that does for you. Unless you are talking stoner rock, the heaviness of metal comes from the clean punch.
Overall pretty damn good for a first recording.
toad_uk
Member
I think you did pretty good, especially if these are your first attempts. It all depends what you are trying to do. I've heard a lot of indie bands' "professional" releases that sound the equal of this. A lot of it is a matter of opinion, I personally find a lot of stuff these days sounds over produced.
The drums do sound a little small for this style of music, the cymbals seemed to take over a bit, probably the kits needs some eq, depending on how the individual drums etc are tracked and how much bleed you have. Personally I found it quite refreshing to hear a drum kit sound like a kit and not a set of samples you'd find on a drum machine.
The drums do sound a little small for this style of music, the cymbals seemed to take over a bit, probably the kits needs some eq, depending on how the individual drums etc are tracked and how much bleed you have. Personally I found it quite refreshing to hear a drum kit sound like a kit and not a set of samples you'd find on a drum machine.
Erockrazor
I mix in (2x) real-time
It may be a suggestion to even lower the distortion on the guitar and then double track. There was sweep picking in one of the songs that sounded sweet as hell but it was way in the background. In these busy mixes, use automation to bring contrast and attention to what you want to stick out. Don't leave the mix stagnant with everything the same levels every time.
Read this 3 times slowly. http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html
There you will find some great insight on getting that ballsy guitar song. Digest what you read.
We can go on for days on why your mixes arent professional .. but I think you're smart enough to know the answer for that. The question should be how can my mixes improve. Post some clips in the mp3 clinic, there are plenty of metal heads in here that know the genre and recording practices VERY well. You can get a lot of help by asking the right questions and looking in the right places.
FWIW, your mixes are great for your first attempts. You will learn a lot if you want to. And as for progressive metal being the hardest to record, I think it's safe to say that every genre has raised difficulty in different aspects. It just depends how well you want to record it.
Good luck. Ask the right questions and look for answers. Use your ears to solve problems and you'll learn.
Read this 3 times slowly. http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html
There you will find some great insight on getting that ballsy guitar song. Digest what you read.
We can go on for days on why your mixes arent professional .. but I think you're smart enough to know the answer for that. The question should be how can my mixes improve. Post some clips in the mp3 clinic, there are plenty of metal heads in here that know the genre and recording practices VERY well. You can get a lot of help by asking the right questions and looking in the right places.
FWIW, your mixes are great for your first attempts. You will learn a lot if you want to. And as for progressive metal being the hardest to record, I think it's safe to say that every genre has raised difficulty in different aspects. It just depends how well you want to record it.
Good luck. Ask the right questions and look for answers. Use your ears to solve problems and you'll learn.