Why do some people turn there mics upside down, or hanging when recording?

[Logik_01]

is there any advantage to this or just personal preference?

 

[Scinx]

I will hang my mic upside down on numerous occasions...if Im doing the vocal and my mic is upside down its prolly because I dont want anything in front of me...I dont like having the mic stand right in front of me all the time (allows for flailing arms, music stands, etc.)...sometimes when micing amps I have it hung upside down because I dont feel like screwing it onto a tabletop stand or the like...instead I keep things on booms and if the source is low - I drop the boom down...if its high - I jack it up...I dont know if that answers anything...although now you have a window into my dimented logic and utter foolishness...

 

[Rev E]

There are also a few mic positions that cannot be easily done with the mic coming from the bottom, as opposed to from the top. Plus, there is a psychological effect of openness if the singer doesn't want anything in front of her/him.

 

[Logik_01]

interesting, u think i could hang my studio projects B1 or would the mic clip it came with not support it? do i need one of those web looking clips? (forgive my ignorance)

 

[Scinx]

I use shockmounts whenever I hang a mic upside down...(yes aka a web looking clip)...However - if your regular mic clip is tight enough - I suppose you could use that just the same...nice and tight is always more preferable...

 

[Logik_01]

do they have shock mounts for the studio projects b1?

 

[Dot]

Logik, yes there are now shockmounts for the B series.

http://www.macmidimusic.com/prod.itml/icOid/4341

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

 

[meriphew]

Some tube mics put out enough heat to damage the tender bits on it, that's why you'll often see them upside down so that the heat is radiating up and away from the capsule.

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com

 

[Richard Monroe]

In the good old days before mylar, all condensers had tubes and gold diaphragms, and the rising heat waves from the tube could distort a gold foil diaphragm or ribbon temporarily, or in some cases, even permanently. People got into the habit of hanging mics upside down. Now, people don't even know why they do it. It looks like the pictures they saw in recording magazine. It hasn't made a difference in years, unless you own some cool vintage mics.

 

[tmix]

I would say for me it is only to get the body and cable of the mic out of the way for a guitar or sheet music or the like.

 

[mrface2112]

throatiness

i do it b/c that way it naturally points slightly downward, which gives more throatiness and chest-voice to the sound and minimizes my nasality (which really needs minimizing).

plus it gets it out of the way and i don't find myself smacking it or the stand.

i use my B1 this way and i've done so with the standard clip they provide with the mic. shockmounts are nicer (and necessary if the stand's gonna vibrate at all), but the supplied mount holds it fine. the only concern is how far you have the boom out--make sure you've got one of the stand's legs pointing the same way as the boom so it doesn't tip over and give you a B1/floor sammich.

fwiw, i didn't like my B1 on my voice *until* i started inverting it and got it in that "right" position. now i'm not as eager to start looking for more vocal mics b/c now the B1 does a fine job.

as they say in real estate, location location location.


wade

 

[Fletcher]

I use shockmounts whenever I hang a mic upside down...(yes aka a web looking clip)

It can sometimes be a problem positioning mics in shockmounts when they're hung upside down... some have no problems. It's mostly a function of the age of the rubber bands and the severity of the angle of the dangle...

In the good old days before mylar, all condensers had tubes and gold diaphragms, and the rising heat waves from the tube could distort a gold foil diaphragm or ribbon temporarily, or in some cases, even permanently. People got into the habit of hanging mics upside down. Now, people don't even know why they do it. It looks like the pictures they saw in recording magazine. It hasn't made a difference in years, unless you own some cool vintage mics.

Whoo-hoo... a cornucopia of 'yeah kinda... but not really's here...

Almost all condenser microphone diaphragms are 'gold sputtered' something. Most modern ones are 'gold sputtered mylar', many older capsules were 'gold sputtered PVC'. PVC tends to be quite a bit more brittle than mylar, which actually gives it bit of an airier tone... but it doesn't last as long as mylar, is more expensive than mylar, and from what I understand, harder to get the gold sputter to stick to than mylar.

It wasn't some much that the "rising heat waves from the tube could distort a gold foil diaphragm or ribbon temporarily", it was more that the heat would dry out the PVC decreasing the life span of the capsule. [No offense intended... as in not personal] Gold "foil" is not a capsule material... and there was no such thing as a "tube ribbon mic" until 2001 when Royer Labs made one as a prototype for a possible future release [and it sounds fucking awesome... but 99.999999999992% of the world's population will not be having a listen to the thing for another few years.

Granted, most people hang mics upside down because that's the way they've seen it done in pictures... no argument there. However, it definitely alters the tone of the microphone.

How sound bounces off the metal of the microphone's grill assembly makes a major difference to the way a microphone sounds. If you've ever been near the water you've probably seen a pier supported by pilings. Ever notice the pattern of water ripples that are created around those pilings?

This is very similar to what happens to the air currents entering the head assembly of a microphone... remember, we're dealing with very minute variations in air pressure when we're talking about "sound"... coupled with the "angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection" concept... so, when you flip the mic from "grill to god" to "grill to ground" you will very much alter the way that sound enters the business end of the microphone... which will indeed affect the tone of the microphone.

 

[acorec]

"......However, it definitely alters the tone of the microphone.

How sound bounces off the metal of the microphone's grill assembly makes a major difference to the way a microphone sounds. If you've ever been near the water you've probably seen a pier supported by pilings. Ever notice the pattern of water ripples that are created around those pilings?

This is very similar to what happens to the air currents entering the head assembly of a microphone... remember, we're dealing with very minute variations in air pressure when we're talking about "sound"... coupled with the "angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection" concept... so, when you flip the mic from "grill to god" to "grill to ground" you will very much alter the way that sound enters the business end of the microphone... which will indeed affect the tone of the microphone. [/B]

So, this could be a way of getting a different tone out of the same mic. Try it one both ways before trying a different mic?

I think you are on to something.

 

[mrface2112]

you got it

<<So, this could be a way of getting a different tone out of the same mic. Try it one both ways before trying a different mic?>>

i think that's exactly what he means......and that's been my experience at least with the B1.

having the B1 "grill to god" captured all the natural nasality of my voice and sounded not at all flattering (or good) on my voice. flipping it over ("grill to ground") brought out all kinds of good sounds from my voice. Two very different tones from one (low-end) mic on my voice--one not at all usable, one quite nice--nice enough that it cooled my jets on "needing" a v67g.


wade

 

[Fletcher]

IMNTLBFHO, the two skills that are most important to learn for any recording engineer are "microphone selection" and "microphone placement".

The right side up/upside down thing is all part of "microphone placement".

 

[mrface2112]

yep

yep--placement IS the #1 key to getting a good sound to tape one you've found a mic that's suitable.

i'd thought i'd covered all of the bases, placement-wise. i'd experimented with the direction i was singing across/towards the mic, i'd experimented with the way the mic was pointing (up or down, but still with the cable connector facing down), i'd experimented with my distance from the mic and various gains.....none of that made much of a difference (all just a variation on "crappy" for my voice) until i got a wild hair and just flipped the bugger upside down.

given the cardiod pattern on it, i didn't think that it would have *that* much of a profound effect on the tone......i suppose that's what i get for thinking.....b/c the effect *was* profound.

until that time, i was just figuring that the B1 wasn't the right mic for my voice (b/c my previous experiements/placements had provided excellent results on other people's voices). but now i'm getting more than usable results. i just wish i didn't suck so bad at singing. ;-P


wade

 

[acorec]

IMNTLBFHO, the two skills that are most important to learn for any recording engineer are "microphone selection" and "microphone placement".

The right side up/upside down thing is all part of "microphone placement".

Thanks. I am REALLY SLOW and sometimes don't quite understand, but I'm working on it. After all, I like the TLM103.
Now you KNOW I have bigger problems than mic placement.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Thanks for the enlightenment, Fletcher! Please answer me this- if the diaphragms of classic condensers weren't gold, what material(s) were used? Also, is there any predictable pattern to the sound variance you get when the mic is inverted or not? Is inverted generally better, or is it one of those things that varies, depending on the acoustic space, the material, and taste?-Richie

 

[DigitalDon]

All technical issues aside, the "cool" factor is definitely there with a nice looking condensor upside down. You know, just like the magazines show them in the big guy studios

 

[Rimshot]

is there any advantage to this or just personal preference?

To use as overheads?