Why Can't I use my RNP w/ my Mackie mixer?

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Rozman

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I want to do something that seems VERY basic, but yet I can't do it. Can you provide some perspective?

I just want to run a vocal condenser into an RNP and then run the signal from the RNP to a Mackie mixer. Then I want the option of connecting the Mackie to a headphone amp, to a power amp or to a recorder.

However, it seems this stupidly simple plan is futile because one can't totally bypass the Mackie's internal preamps, so you end up, in effect, stacking the preamps. With a loud signal, you can turn the Mackie fader down and get mainly RNP, and it sounds good. With a vocalist using a condenser, you can't get enough gain out of the RNP before it clips. You have to turn up the Mackie's channel fader and that brings in the Mackie preamp, so what's the point of using the RNP. Am I nuts? I have tried the insert jacks and the mic/line jacks but its all the same. I need a "power amp in" analogous to an effects return on a guitar amp, but there isn't one. Is any bargain or mid-priced mixer compatible with using standalone preamps??? :( Thanks.
 
If you only have this one channel, why do you need the mackie mixer at all? Would you alow to run out of the RNP right into your amp or headphone distributor? I don't know of any preampless mixers.
 
Hmmmm, I am totally confused. Why do you want to run a good preamp into a crappy board??? Also, the RNP should have WAY more than enough gain for a condenser mic - I used mine with an NTK, and that isn't a very sensitive mic.

We need more info on what it is exactly you are trying to do......
 
. . . Because I need to mix, and is not that what a mixer is supposed to do? I want to bypass the crappy preamps in the mixer. How can I mix 10 mic signals and send all those signals to a headphone amp if I don't use a mixer? A crappy mixer is all I have right now, but I'll get a better one is someone can identify one that is designed to be used with good standalone preamps.
 
Cant you plug the 1/4 inch output of the RNP into the insert (the first click) of the channel you want to use on the mackie..
That should bypass the mackie per.
 
Rozman said:
. . . Because I need to mix, and is not that what a mixer is supposed to do? I want to bypass the crappy preamps in the mixer. How can I mix 10 mic signals and send all those signals to a headphone amp if I don't use a mixer? A crappy mixer is all I have right now, but I'll get a better one is someone can identify one that is designed to be used with good standalone preamps.
Click to expand...


You should IMHO, be running the RNP directly into your converters. Then, at mixdown, your converter should send the channels out to the board to be mixed. Or is this a "live" application?
 
That is the question I am asking. I want someone who has solved this problem to tell me how they did it (or tell me that it can't be solved with the equipment I have).

Apparently, I am the first person ever to want to use a decent preamp for live sound or to get a headphone mix for rehearsal, with a lower end Mackie board.
 
Rozman said:
Apparently, I am the first person ever to want to use a decent preamp for live sound or to get a headphone mix for rehearsal, with a lower end Mackie board.
Click to expand...


Ahhhh, I see. I am of no help then. I thought you were recording. Sorry. :(

Edit - just thought of something - the mackie doesn't have a "line In" channel, or a "Two track In" channel, or something similiar?
 
Thanks, NL5, the line in is a mic/line, but its not switchable and does not allow you to bypass the mixer's preamps. But I think the suggestion made above, to do a "half plug" into the channel insert may be the answer. I am going to try that.

Thanks to all of you for contributing.
 
Rozman said:
the line in is a mic/line, but its not switchable and does not allow you to bypass the mixer's preamps.
Click to expand...


I don't mean at the channel - a friend had one of the mackie CFX mixers, and it had a "LNE IN channel that just had a pot for level, and a button to add it to the mix - that's it.

Anyway, timboZ's idea is probably the best way to go.

Good luck!
 
NL5 said:
I don't mean at the channel - a friend had one of the mackie CFX mixers, and it had a "LNE IN channel that just had a pot for level, and a button to add it to the mix - that's it.

Anyway, timboZ's idea is probably the best way to go.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

If I want to bypass the pres on my fostex VF160 and yamaha MG32/4 board I go into the first click of the insert.
 
Thanks, TimboZ.

I tried your suggestion, but I also tried going direct from my RNP into my Fostex mr-8 recorder. For some reason, when I went into the Fostex, I only got sound in one ear, (and there is nothing wrong with my headphones), but THE SOUND GOING DIRECT INTO THE FOSTEX WAS MUCH, MUCH BETTER!!! I still can't get a nice crystalline sound via the headphone mix through the mixer? Why would a relatively inexpensive digital recorder sound so much better through headphones as opposed to going through a Mackie mixer and into a Presonus headphone amp and then into headphones? This is really frustrating. Do I need to buy an expensive board and an expensive headphone amp to equal the sound of an inexpensive Fostex recorder??? Thanks.
 
As Farview is fond of saying: You can never add quality, you can only take it away.

Your signal will only be as good as the worst thing you run it through.


On the bright side, for live or rehearsal you don't need pristine quality. Just put the headphones on your head and play. Too many people get caught up in the technical aspect of setting up the gear and forget to just play.
 
Answer

Run the 1/4 cable "out" from the RNP into the 1/4 insert "in" on the mackie board (on your channel of choice). Just don't run an XLR end into the XLR input on the mackie mixer and your problem is solved.

Who's bad talking mackie boards??? They're good boards for people who know what they are doing.

Best of luck!
 
Rozman said:
THE SOUND GOING DIRECT INTO THE FOSTEX WAS MUCH, MUCH BETTER!!! I still can't get a nice crystalline sound via the headphone mix through the mixer? Why would a relatively inexpensive digital recorder sound so much better through headphones as opposed to going through a Mackie mixer and into a Presonus headphone amp and then into headphones? This is really frustrating. Do I need to buy an expensive board and an expensive headphone amp to equal the sound of an inexpensive Fostex recorder??? Thanks.
Click to expand...

And an expensive recorder would also sound better than your inexpensive Fostex.

Basically, the reason it sounds better going directly into the Fostex is that you are running the signal through less electronics. The shorter the signal path the better, so the less gear in the signal path the better. Especially when it comes to cheap electronics, which is a category all your gear fits into.

If you were to upgrade your mixer and heaphone amp to truly high quality stuff you'd probably then begin notice the flaws in how your Fostex sounds. As has been mentioned, you sound as good as the weakest link in the audio chain. So you are right to keep that chain as short an simple as possible.
 
Thanks, Everyone, but What's the Weakest Link?

I know, it's probably me, but assuming I can't change that one, what is the next step if I just can't live with what I've got?

I had an idea that should work, but it doesn't: I thought I could run the vocal mic, guitar mic and bass mic direct into the recorder (or via the RNP pre), and then use the Mackie mixer to do a submix for the drummer. The recorder only has four mic/line inputs. So, if I could run the drummer's submix signal into the recorder's 4th channel, and then run the recorder's stereo outs into the headphone amp (stay with me, almost done!) then two of us could connect their headphones right to the recorder's two headphone jacks and the others could use the headphone amp. BUT, I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO RUN A SIGNAL FROM THE MIXER TO THE RECORDER. I'VE TRIED ALL THE OUTS, AND NOTHING WORKS. Also, why are all the outs on the mixer left and right, but the recorder just has a single line in jack for each channel? Everyone has told me that you can always run a signal from a mixer to a recorder, but I can't make it work! Thanks for your help.
 
I think you are making this way more difficult than it should be.

Rnp, line outs -->
Mixer line input, those channel inserts, go out (to 1st click, single ended) to recorder inputs, or use alt 3/4 outputs for a total of 6 recording outputs on a 1202. I suppose you could use the sends too for 2 more outputs.

Monitor through mixer.
 
Damn, we're such assholes here in homeRECORDING.com to assume that you were recording, especially in light of the remarkably detailed and accurate description of your intentions in your original post.

As riffy said, it's a much smaller problem than you're making it.

Rozman said:
Apparently, I am the first person ever to want to use a decent preamp for live sound or to get a headphone mix for rehearsal, with a lower end Mackie board.
Click to expand...
 
Recording or rehearsing, what 's the difference? You are missing my question. I said that I can't figure out how to get a signal from the mixer to the recorder. Assume I want to track the whole band playing at the same time in my basement. I can't get a signal from the Mackie to the recorder, and I don't have enough inputs on the recorder to not use the mixer. Yea, it's probably my own stupidity, but none of the outs on the mixer seem to send a signal to the recorder. Plus, all the mixer's outs are left and right, and the recorder has only single line-in jacks. I want to plug a mic into the mixer and actually be able to record something with the recorder. If I use one of the main outs, that does not work, and neither does using one of the tape outs or one of the aux sends.
 
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