Who's Property Is It?

[Dani Pace]

I think I have encountered a new one, at least I've not seen it posted yet. Most of us have basic understanding of copyrights and how these laws are intended to work. I have encountered a snag that dosen't seem covered or has a loophole or something. Anyway I have an insistant client who claims the need of some sort of release forms (from musicians and myself granting exclusive ownership of recorded materal.) Anyone else ever had one? I'm a musician and operate a small studio, not a lawyer so legal issues are not my area of expertiese. (I'm not even a good speller) I wonder does anyone know about this matter, and if anyone can give me a link to a downloadable form to cover everyone's asses, including mine. I'm sure major recording companies have lawers to sort out issues like this but I'm a small time studio opperator mainly doing demos and limited production stuff and can't afford to get sued because someone hears a recording without the artist's permission. Any ideas or links will be appreciated. If nothing else this might be something we should all think about.

 

[7string]

I think I have encountered a new one, at least I've not seen it posted yet. Most of us have basic understanding of copyrights and how these laws are intended to work. I have encountered a snag that dosen't seem covered or has a loophole or something. Anyway I have an insistant client who claims the need of some sort of release forms (from musicians and myself granting exclusive ownership of recorded materal.) Anyone else ever had one? I'm a musician and operate a small studio, not a lawyer so legal issues are not my area of expertiese. (I'm not even a good speller) I wonder does anyone know about this matter, and if anyone can give me a link to a downloadable form to cover everyone's asses, including mine. I'm sure major recording companies have lawers to sort out issues like this but I'm a small time studio opperator mainly doing demos and limited production stuff and can't afford to get sued because someone hears a recording without the artist's permission. Any ideas or links will be appreciated. If nothing else this might be something we should all think about.

Is your client asking you to give HIM ownership of YOUR music? Or does he represent a band and wants to make sure the band owns the songs that are recorded in your studio?

 

[Dani Pace]

My client wants the rights to the arraingement, the song (at least the lyrics are his) but on the recording, the entire musical part was figured out and arrainged by myself and three other musicians. It's not a big deal to me, I don't even like the songs so chances are that I'll never play them again. He just insists that we sign some sort of release that gives him the rights to the arraingement. As far as I am concerned, he bought our time, we provided the product he wanted, he can do with it as he pleases but some people just need a piece of paper that says they own something i guess.

 

[tanlith]

My client wants the rights to the arraingement, the song (at least the lyrics are his) but on the recording, the entire musical part was figured out and arrainged by myself and three other musicians. It's not a big deal to me, I don't even like the songs so chances are that I'll never play them again. He just insists that we sign some sort of release that gives him the rights to the arraingement. As far as I am concerned, he bought our time, we provided the product he wanted, he can do with it as he pleases but some people just need a piece of paper that says they own something i guess.

In a word: DON'T SIGN IT! In a totally hypothetical situation, the song(s) in question become a #1 hit and make him millions... you've relinquished all your legal rights to any and all possible royalties. You might think the songs are no biggie, but it doesn't mean they're not hit material. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that millins of others won't. Also keep this in mind: If a song becomes a hit you can't even legally claim you had a part in creating it. You loose all claim for any credit in its creation.

Think about how often someone steps out of the shadows claiming they wrote "so and so's" new # hit, but they lose the legal battle because they signed off on it. Tell him you will sign over exclusive rights for distribution and full rights of usage, but you want to retain X% of the possible royalties (X being your fair share: if 4 people were involved in it's creation then it's reasonable for you to ask for 25%)

And even if the money part is of no concern to you, do you really want to completely sign off on your rights to credit? At the very least you should insist that you get credit on all materials that denote the creator of the song.

If it does become a hit for him he will then have to put your name on the CD as a cowriter... if you're serious about being a musician, then something like that would carry weight... think of it as your resume.

- Tanlith -

 

[freshmattyp]

You should absolutely demand co-writer credit for yourself and the other collaborators. You might also want to research the guidlelines for "work for hire" to see what your rights are.

 

[obgenius]

It sounds like you never agreed that it would be a work-for-hire arrangement from the beginning. If he only now brings up the issue, it's to late for him. As of now, you retain part of the publishing copyright since he only wrote lyrics and you wrote the instrumental parts. He can purchase the entire publishing rights from you if you want to sell it to him. However, usually he would retain the copyright for the master recordings in this kind of situation since he paid for you to record it in your studio. I would have to know more details of your prior agreements and discussions to really know what your legal obligations are. You should maybe talk to a lawyer.

 

[Monsoon]

Legally, he needs the piece of paper to have full ownership. If you intended that he would walk away with the final product and it would be **his** final product, then assign the copyrights and move on. Otherwise, you are screwing him out of what everyone understood the deal would be, even if the legal niceties weren't agreed to at the beginning. Holding out would be within your legal rights, but wouldn't make you the most scrupulous of businesspeople.

If you expected to retain ownership of the product for your contribution, and that was the understanding at the beginning, then he's out of luck, and you should hold out for additional payment or some other compensation arrangement.

But based on these facts, it does sound like he's right that he needs the assignment for sole ownership. And if you intended and understood that he'd own it when you started the work, then do the right thing and assign the copyrights.

 

[7string]

My client wants the rights to the arraingement, the song (at least the lyrics are his) but on the recording, the entire musical part was figured out and arrainged by myself and three other musicians. It's not a big deal to me, I don't even like the songs so chances are that I'll never play them again. He just insists that we sign some sort of release that gives him the rights to the arraingement. As far as I am concerned, he bought our time, we provided the product he wanted, he can do with it as he pleases but some people just need a piece of paper that says they own something i guess.

If he wrote the lyrics then he owns the lyrics. If you and three other musicians wrote and arranged the music then the four of you own the music. It's that simple. You will get royalties from whatever he sells, UNLESS YOU SIGN THE RIGHTS AWAY AS HE WANTS!

So in a word: DON'T!

 

[Dani Pace]

OK, I'll try and clear up the picture a little..... To start with I was apporached and asked if I would record some songs, including provide musicians, a price was agreed on and plans were made for when we would do the project. When the day arrives, we all show up, my client has lyrics sheets for his songs (no music, not even chord progressions) he has a cheap guitar and can barely play the rythm so we build on his ideas and formulate the music from there, adding a lot of our own creativeness along the way. finally we get some deacent sounding stuff down on tape. At this point everyone seems happy, my friends (the other musicians leave happy, they got paid for doing what we would have done anyway) I cleaned up the mix a little and handed my client the master, I got paid and thought the whole thing was over. A couple of weeks later I get a call wanting all of us who worked on the recording to sign some sort of release making the recording the sole property of the client....and that's what started this whole mess.

 

[apl]

When the day arrives, we all show up, my client has lyrics sheets for his songs (no music, not even chord progressions) he has a cheap guitar and can barely play the rythm so we build on his ideas and formulate the music from there...

It sounds like your and your friends contributions were substantial. No wonder he wants it. He'd have nothing without your partnership.

 

[BentRabbit]

I would definitely discuss with a lawyer (you know the client probably will/has).
On the copyright forms, it does specifically ask if your contribution was made on a 'Made For Hire' basis, and if so, needs a 'written instrument' attesting the fact...

Sounds like your client is getting ready to submit copyright reg...

A “work made for hire” is defined as: (1) “a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment”; or (2) “a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material for a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire.” If you have checked “Yes” to indicate that the work was “made for hire,” you must give the full legal name of the employer (or other person for whom the work was prepared). You may also include the name of the employee along with the name of the employer (for example: “Elster Music Co., employer for hire of John Ferguson”).

 

[tanlith]

OK, I'll try and clear up the picture a little..... To start with I was apporached and asked if I would record some songs, including provide musicians, a price was agreed on and plans were made for when we would do the project. When the day arrives, we all show up, my client has lyrics sheets for his songs (no music, not even chord progressions) he has a cheap guitar and can barely play the rythm so we build on his ideas and formulate the music from there, adding a lot of our own creativeness along the way. finally we get some deacent sounding stuff down on tape. At this point everyone seems happy, my friends (the other musicians leave happy, they got paid for doing what we would have done anyway) I cleaned up the mix a little and handed my client the master, I got paid and thought the whole thing was over. A couple of weeks later I get a call wanting all of us who worked on the recording to sign some sort of release making the recording the sole property of the client....and that's what started this whole mess.

At some point someone with knowledge of the legal system gave him advice. If they didn't think you could come back and bite him in the arse with it then he wouldn't have even asked you to sign the document.

So I reiterate - RETAIN CO-AUTHORSHIP! Give him full rights and even let him keep all the residule royalties, but PUT YOUR NAME NEXT TO HIS ON EVERYTHING PUBLISHED REGARDING THAT MATERIAL!! This is your resume... if a song hapens to make it then you can say "Hey I helped write that." And something like that carries weight... it may get your foot in a door later when you go looking for your own deal.

- Tanlith -

 

[7string]

So I reiterate - RETAIN CO-AUTHORSHIP! Give him full rights and even let him keep all the residule royalties, but PUT YOUR NAME NEXT TO HIS ON EVERYTHING PUBLISHED REGARDING THAT MATERIAL!! This is your resume... if a song hapens to make it then you can say "Hey I helped write that." And something like that carries weight... it may get your foot in a door later when you go looking for your own deal.

- Tanlith -

Until they realize what a fool he was to sign away all his rights... THEN they'll take advantage of him too.

 

[Dani Pace]

Thanks for the advice guys. I"ve learned a lesson from this...get it in writing up front!!! I have to laugh a little about it though, there would have never been a problem if we had not have done as good of a job as we did, we made the poor guy sound a lot better than he really is. Yeah we did a good job but I dont think it is quite good enough to ever make it to the charts. Well, gotta go now to start a new project, and oh yes we got everything in writing this time so there should be no more problems, damn it is rough to try and make a few bucks in a society where everybody wants to sue everybody for everything.

 

[tanlith]

Thanks for the advice guys. I"ve learned a lesson from this...get it in writing up front!!! I have to laugh a little about it though, there would have never been a problem if we had not have done as good of a job as we did, we made the poor guy sound a lot better than he really is. Yeah we did a good job but I dont think it is quite good enough to ever make it to the charts. Well, gotta go now to start a new project, and oh yes we got everything in writing this time so there should be no more problems, damn it is rough to try and make a few bucks in a society where everybody wants to sue everybody for everything.

Glad to hear it!

And remember:

"The first thing we must do is kill all the lawyers." - Shakespere

 

[famous beagle]

It sounds like your client is the unscrupulous one to me. I hate those people that think "I wrote the lyrics ... so it's my song!"

 

[mjareo]

This puts me in mind of the story of the Star Trek theme (the original series). Find the full story here. In short, the royalties for the theme song were split because Gene Roddenbury wrote lyrics to the song after the fact. This kind of relates to the comment above by tanlith that if might turn into this big hit. The money made from that little theme songs couldn't have been predicted, but when you start to consider that every time the show is played, a royalty is payed. There are a LOT of re-runs, though maybe not so many today as there used to be. Still, something to think about....

...and mostly I just love sharing obscure stories.

 

[ecktronic]

My client wants the rights to the arraingement, the song (at least the lyrics are his) but on the recording, the entire musical part was figured out and arrainged by myself and three other musicians. It's not a big deal to me, I don't even like the songs so chances are that I'll never play them again. He just insists that we sign some sort of release that gives him the rights to the arraingement. As far as I am concerned, he bought our time, we provided the product he wanted, he can do with it as he pleases but some people just need a piece of paper that says they own something i guess.

Firstly you said that someone wants the rights to the recordings, but they also want the rights to the actuall recordings.

Two different things. A record label will usually own the rights to the recordings and the musican the rights to the composition. When a publisher wants to publish material they will usually get the rights to the composition (for a certain length of time).

 

[ecktronic]

If a musician was just playing music he was told to for a recording (session musician) then he would be entitled to a one off payment and have nothing to do with the rights or royalties usually.
If the musician put his own inspiration and creativity into the recording then he should expect to own some of the compositional rights to the music and definetely be entitled to royalties for that recording.

I would write up a contract saying that the person gets the rights to the words and whoever wrote parts to the song should get rights to the composition.