where to put the monitors and ME?

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dobro

dobro

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Okay, ready to do some more work on the studio (as opposed to *in* the studio).

In another thread, Knightfly said this about fibreglass placement on the ceiling:

"Unless your ceiling is already absorbent, you need to eliminate early reflections between speakers and ceiling - you do this by putting up a "cloud" whose front-to-back center is halfway between you and your speakers, and center it left-to-right. Typically this needs to be at least 4 x 6 feet to catch any possible reflections."

Well, that's advice I'm going to take, but the question I've got is where to put the monitors and myself. I know about the equilateral triangle idea, but where to put that triangle in a room like mine? How much does it matter? My room's got these dimensions:

14' 4" long

9' 8" wide

11' high

The attached diagram will give you an idea of where things are in the room. In addition to what I've included in the diagram, there are also 8' rugs hanging from all the ceilings, which do a nice job of killing echo. The floor is lino on concrete, and I've got a carpet on it. The walls are plaster on edcon blocks, and the ceiling's about nine hard, thin panels of some sort of material, above which is a big attic.

With that kind of room with those dimensions, where should I sit? What about the monitors?
 

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Hey dobro,

Perhaps you should interchange the computer desk and the bookcase along the short wall, then put your monitors on each side of the computer table.

Also, how are the bookcases constructed? Is the back panel made of thin wood? If so, I'm wondering if you could build traps using the thin back panel as the "membrane", and build a frame with fiberglass inside attached to the back of the bookcases. I guess it would depend on how full those bookcases are.

Just some ideas. For what it's worth.
 
Dobro,

> where to put the monitors and myself. <

Your position is very bad because it's exactly halfway between the front and rear walls. Here's one good way to set the placement:

Put yourself 38% of the way back. In a room 14'4" deep that means you'll be 5-1/2 feet from the front wall. Then build your equilateral triangle around that.

--Ethan
 
Nice, thanks Ethan. That's what I was looking for. Hey, btw, I read your article in EM's April edition - good stuff. Are you doing a follow-up article that covers how to deal with the problems you identified in the first article? Notice how I say 'first article'? lol

Cap'n - I might shift the desk, yeah. it would fit in with Ethan's suggestion as well, I think. The desk is where it is now for ergonomic reasons, but sound takes precedence. The bookshelves are open-backed right now, but I suppose I could build bass traps into the backs. And a mini-bar. Yeah, if I go to the trouble of building bass traps I might as well install a mini-bar. I mean, I'll need a drink after all that work, right?
 
Ethan, sometimes I drink too much beer. Last night for example during my previous post. I forgot to ask the most important question - how did you come up with the figure of 38% back from the front wall? Is that a standard position, or is it a position you came up with based on the dimensions and properties of my room?
 
dobro said:
....The bookshelves are open-backed right now, but I suppose I could build bass traps into the backs. And a mini-bar. Yeah, if I go to the trouble of building bass traps I might as well install a mini-bar. I mean, I'll need a drink after all that work, right?
Click to expand...

Well Hell, if the bookshelves absolutely HAVE to be in the room, you might as well put them to work!! :D

Maybe pick up some of those solid-state thermocouple devices to keep the beers in the bookcase cold!
 
Re: Re: where to put the monitors and ME?

Ethan Winer said:
Put yourself 38% of the way back.
Click to expand...

Does the same rule apply to floor and ceiling distance?
 
http://www.cardas.com/cgi-bin/main_content.cgi?area=Insights&content_id=26&pagestring=Room+Setup

Mr. Cardas has been at this for quite some time - This is his recommendation based on golden ratio theory - it also works out when looking at axial modes and trying to stay away from peaks and nulls with both speakers and ears.

Mr. Cardas doesn't go into height of ears and speakers that I've found, so I use a height that is neither peak nor null in any of the first four harmonics of the ceiling height. In the case of Dobro's 11 foot ceilings, the most practical ear/speaker height is 45 inches. I'm attaching a screen shot of Harmon's handy mode calculator, with some notations added for locations in all three planes - I tried to find best modal balance in each dimension and marked them, blue for listener and brown for speakers - note the closeness of results between Mr. Cardas' formula and the nodal balance method I used - speaker distance from sidewalls in my method comes out to about 33.5", and the Cardas golden ratio method gives 32" - distance from rear wall comes out nearly that close as well.

I wouldn't, however, use 38% - that value comes within less than an inch of the 4th harmonic of the axial mode, which would result in a nearly total null at 158 hZ in this case... Steve
 

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Dobro and Tex,

> how did you come up with the figure of 38% <

I didn't. I freely admit that I learned that from studio designer Wes Lachot and merely parrotted it here. :D

I will say, from my own direct experience, that what matters most is being somewhat forward of the center line.

--Ethan
 
Steve,

> Mr. Cardas doesn't go into height of ears ... speaker distance from sidewalls ... I wouldn't, however, use 38% <

Later today I'm going to post some data over at RO, MusicPlayer, and a few other places that will offer an entirely new perspective on these very issues.

--Ethan
 
"Later today I'm going to post some data over at RO, MusicPlayer, and a few other places that will offer an entirely new perspective on these very issues."

That's bait, right? I mean it *looks* like bait.

What do the rest of you say? :D
 
Thanks Knightfly -

...for the reply

...for the link to Cardas' site

...for all the pretty colors on diagram (I'll figure it out some time when it's not 3 am)
 
Cool, I'll post more on that when I get time - basically, the sine-shaped curves show peak and null positions for sound in each of your three room dimensions, color coded by which harmonic and frequency they show. the upper panel shows what this is. Looking at the length section, you would consider the left side the front of the room, and the chart shows where each harmonic has its max and minimum levels. You don't want to be at EITHER max or min points, except for left/right position - in that case, symmetry of sound field overrides modal considerations.

More later, including a room diagram of your space with dimensions to speakers, walls, head, etc... Steve
 
Dobro,

> That's bait, right? <

Damn right! :D

It's now up at RO, MusicPlayer.com, and the AVS forum. Go check it out. The thread subject is "Do room modes even matter?"

--Ethan
 
Checked it out but short on time as usual - no surprises (for me, anyway) - this all makes Tom Hidley and Phillip Newell's concepts of a Non-Environment room even MORE compelling -

(Don'cha just LOVE these "teasers"??!? :=)

Yeah, I'll clarify that comment when I get time (day or two, probably)... Steve
 
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