Where does your mix go

[cusebassman]

Hello all -

I run a small project studio in my apartment, digital tape recorders, an analog mixing console, and I mixdown to computer for mastering and finishing up whatever I've done. I see a lot of hardcore analog people in the forum discussing the use of 1/4" stereo reel recorders for their stereo mixdowns, but where do you send your audio after that? I am interested in trying out the open reel mixdown process, but it seems pointless in my case because I would be sending that stereo mix to a computer for putting on CD anyway... perhaps it is the change in sound that going to tape first gives your mix, not sure. Just curious, thanks!

 

[jpmorris]

Hello all -

I run a small project studio in my apartment, digital tape recorders, an analog mixing console, and I mixdown to computer for mastering and finishing up whatever I've done. I see a lot of hardcore analog people in the forum discussing the use of 1/4" stereo reel recorders for their stereo mixdowns, but where do you send your audio after that? I am interested in trying out the open reel mixdown process, but it seems pointless in my case because I would be sending that stereo mix to a computer for putting on CD anyway... perhaps it is the change in sound that going to tape first gives your mix, not sure. Just curious, thanks!

I'm doing it for a couple of reasons - keeping the analogue master tapes for archival purposes, and also because the recorder is more-or-less fire-and-forget. The PC, at least when running Windows is prone to dropouts and so forth. (On several occasions the most aggravating part was digitizing the master tape afterwards..)

Also I'll end up with a higher quality recording than 16/44 digital - if some future digital format becomes mainstream with a higher bit rate, I can take it from the tapes instead of upsampling a CD-quality original.

Your mileage may vary: if you're already running 24/96 or 24/192 that's less of a problem.

And finally, the most shallow reason: it's just kind of cool to be working in a room surrounded by spinning tape decks.

 

[cusebassman]

Yeah, with my current setup I am already converting to 16-bit (hopefully 24 when I upgrade to an HD recorder) at the recorder, but that makes a lot of sense in terms of preserving as high-quality a mixdown as possible. I'd love to be recording to 24 track tape, but I don't think I will ever make the kind of money required to personally own and maintain a decent unit. Oh well, guess I'll have to stick to what's available in digital recorders.

 

[jpmorris]

Yeah, with my current setup I am already converting to 16-bit (hopefully 24 when I upgrade to an HD recorder) at the recorder, but that makes a lot of sense in terms of preserving as high-quality a mixdown as possible. I'd love to be recording to 24 track tape, but I don't think I will ever make the kind of money required to personally own and maintain a decent unit. Oh well, guess I'll have to stick to what's available in digital recorders.

Quite. I'm running 8-track at the moment, (7 really since I'm using SMPTE). I'm also trying to synchronise two of these units to get 14 tracks, but that's mostly for the challenge (and so far it has been VERY challenging). I'm hoping to record one or two songs on 2" in a commercial studio though if I can get the cash together.

 

[MCI2424]

Hello all -

I run a small project studio in my apartment, digital tape recorders, an analog mixing console, and I mixdown to computer for mastering and finishing up whatever I've done. I see a lot of hardcore analog people in the forum discussing the use of 1/4" stereo reel recorders for their stereo mixdowns, but where do you send your audio after that? I am interested in trying out the open reel mixdown process, but it seems pointless in my case because I would be sending that stereo mix to a computer for putting on CD anyway... perhaps it is the change in sound that going to tape first gives your mix, not sure. Just curious, thanks!

I think the guy who says for archival purposes has it about right. The truth is that mixing down to tape from digital will only introduce tape hiss and the "sound" of the tape deck pre-amps. "Tape" itself has no "sound".

If a tape deck is run in the linear range, it should be totally transparent to the sound going on it. People like the pre-amp sound of tape amplifiers, if anything and the "tape saturation" sound lamented here often cannot even be done with narrow format tape machines running either Dolby C or dBX noise reductiuon systems. You can get Tape Saturation with any pro deck because the pre-amps and bias circuits have a waaaay bigger range than home style decks. Home decks usually run out of steam to drive to saturation and only introduce distortion (bad kind).

Ths best place to get your good sound would be in the tracking stage. I find that using transformer coupled pre-amps and strictly opo compressors gives a very well rounded sound in digital recordings.

 

[cjacek]

That is, of course, if you enjoy the sound of driving the meters into the red. I personally like to run at much lower levels, well below 0db.

 

[Beck]

...but it seems pointless in my case because I would be sending that stereo mix to a computer for putting on CD anyway...

That is a common assessment, but it’s a bit more complicated. For various reasons that I won’t go into here, many people feel they gain something sonically by mastering to tape first. I’m one of those people.

Professionals and hobbyists alike are mastering to analog tape regardless of how the material was tracked. many feel it knits the music together similar to what dithering is supposed to do, but tape does it better. Tape also has frequency response irregularities that will make a mix sound warmer.

Not all of the benefits will survive the trip back into the digital realm, but many will. IMO, it’s a sound practice (no pun intended). Everything I record touches tape in the mastering process before porting to digital.

I wouldn’t master any serious work without using analog tape... well, maybe if I had a spike driven into my head, peed my pants and didn’t know who I was, I might go all digital... not sure.

Here’re some thoughts on the subject from people we all know and love:

“This is unfortunately a complicated and controversial topic, but those fortunate enough to be able to discern the differences continue to use analog recording tape to master music.

We do believe that pressing CDs from an analog master tape is going to produce as full, rich and sweet a recording as the digital playback medium will allow. This method of digital pressing from an analog master is championed by a great many labels around the world, small though they may be, whose primary objective is nothing less than the finest possible quality of music capturing and reproduction for their valued clients.”

-Ira Segal
Journal of The Audio Engineering Society (AES) – 1997


"If you want my advice, with all the available digital technology you still can't beat the sound of a good analog mixdown.... The effect on your sound can be dramatic. With an analog mixdown, you have a much wider, deeper sound with greater stereo imaging. An analog mixdown has a texture that digital cannot produce. And, simply put, to my ears it sounds better ... that's it. No more explanation needed."

-George Graves, Chief Engineer - Lacquer Channel Mastering, Toronto
Professional Sound Magazine, April 1998


"I still record the same way I always did. The master goes to tape, and I mix in analog. My board is a 20-year old [Audiotronix] mixing console. Now people are falling all over themselves to get a hold of these old tape decks. Fortunately, I'm very slow to change something that's working."

-Tom Scholtz, EETimes 1998

Tim

 

[krhall]

All my music is composed on computer A very nice program called modplug tracker

In 1992 i was comisioned to write some stuff for a few comodore 64 and 128 games by then the comodore's were moving to amiga so i did too and thats when i got into the tracker music stage :d
even recorded my own instrument samples
Even though most of my recordings have faded to time i still have one of my original tracks which was made for an amiga game in 1993
Called Desert Quest. I made the looping ingame music and i still have it in my music archives today along with a few of my other test tracks
After i finished writting the notation on computer i then run it onto reel to reel tape. And it gives very satisfying results. Recording to cd is bad because it picks up this annoying humming in the background of every track. I dont have this problem recording to reel to reel tape. It has been my primary recording medium for nearly 9 years and i dont intend on giving it up anytime soon

Keith

If you want to see what machines i use check here

http://krhall78.spaces.live.com

<click on "tape recorder collection" album>

 

[AndyK12]

Tape.

I think bouncing it down to 2 track analog tape then digitizing also has the advantage of letting the tape hiss act as a dither to improve resolution.

 

[The Green Hornet]

You Know BassMan:

Sometimes I never know where my mix goes....

However, as long as some of them make it to 2-track stereo for CD burning, I'm happy.

Green Hornet

 

[Slowrider]

Sometimes, people just make Music too complicated. I try to think like this;...ALL those Classics were made......LOOOOOONG before Digital was even thought of. Maybe I,m just TOO old!