Where does pitch fit into rap?

[smuffjules]

Where does pitch fit into rap?
Since rappers don't seem to pay any attention to the pitch of their vocals, surely the singing of a rap song requires half as much talent to start with than ANY style of singing requiring Both rhythm and pitch.
I mean the phrase "Wow! listen to that rappers incredible range!" is redundant right off the bat. Right?

I guess it just doesn't send me musically. If you're just listening to the words, then it might just as well be poetry, not music. Right.

 

[peritus]

Where does pitch fit into rap?
Since rappers don't seem to pay any attention to the pitch of their vocals, surely the singing of a rap song requires half as much talent to start with than ANY style of singing requiring Both rhythm and pitch.
I mean the phrase "Wow! listen to that rappers incredible range!" is redundant right off the bat. Right?

I guess it just doesn't send me musically. If you're just listening to the words, then it might just as well be poetry, not music. Right.

Damn.. Buy a Bob Dylan CD...

 

[Change of POETS]

Where does pitch fit into rap?
Since rappers don't seem to pay any attention to the pitch of their vocals, surely the singing of a rap song requires half as much talent to start with than ANY style of singing requiring Both rhythm and pitch.
I mean the phrase "Wow! listen to that rappers incredible range!" is redundant right off the bat. Right?

I guess it just doesn't send me musically. If you're just listening to the words, then it might just as well be poetry, not music. Right.

It's funny, because when I think how easy it is to write my hip-hop music, I generally assume it must be 10 times easier to write rock or pop, or any other music. I mean, Hip-Hop utilizes at least 16 bars of lyrics per verse, where the bubble-gum rock like Nickelback might use 4 lines of lyrics over a full verse.

So it's safe to assume all rockers or other "musicians" are complete idiots, right? I mean wow... I use more lyrics in one verse than they write for a full song. What morons.

 

[smuffjules]

It's funny, because when I think how easy it is to write my hip-hop music, I generally assume it must be 10 times easier to write rock or pop, or any other music. I mean, Hip-Hop utilizes at least 16 bars of lyrics per verse, where the bubble-gum rock like Nickelback might use 4 lines of lyrics over a full verse.

So it's safe to assume all rockers or other "musicians" are complete idiots, right? I mean wow... I use more lyrics in one verse than they write for a full song. What morons.

What about pitch though??
Maybe Rap completely changed music as we know it as it had developed from the earliest years of just rhythm to rhythm and pitch, and rap is just rhythm.

BTW, writing lyrics doesn't mean you're a musician. It just means you think up things to say, like an author.
Now, applying those words to pitch and rhythm, THAT's being a musician.
Doing it in an original and ear pleasing way, now you're on to something.

So, pitch????

 

[bknot1]

umm a rapper isnt singing..whe is tellin you a story in his own voice...if he was singing they you would worry about pitch..

in rap no one worries about pitch unless they are trying to sing (Nelly)
and sometimes they still dont worry..

 

[smuffjules]

Damn.. Buy a Bob Dylan CD...

Yes, a lot of his stuff was good, but that pitchless stuff that he did just doesn't do it for me either.

You know, there are a lot of great musicians out there who've recorded some atrocious material. Bob included.

In fact, a lot of the so called greats are just called that because they had the stage presence and personality to make it big in the music business. Great entertainers, crap musicians, but it doesn't matter to the fans because once they get their idol, they can do no wrong. Everything they do is cool and don't let anyone say any different. These people are entertainers. THAT's what they do. They leave the musicianshp up to the session MUSICIANS and producers.

Bach, Paganini, Art Tatum, Django Reinhardt, Oscar Peterson, Chet Atkins, Segovia, Louis Armstrong, Itzahk Perlman, Yo Yo Ma, Mark O'Connor, etc....
They're musicians and if you couple that sort of musicianship up with being an entertainer, then you've got world class all time talent.

 

[smuffjules]

umm a rapper isnt singing..whe is tellin you a story in his own voice...if he was singing they you would worry about pitch..

in rap no one worries about pitch unless they are trying to sing (Nelly)
and sometimes they still dont worry..

So is it still music if he's not singing?
What's the definition of music here?

Telling stories is music?
Steven King, Oscar Widle, H.G. Wells, Edgar Allen Poe, if they read their stories aloud to a constant rhythm they'd be musicians too??

Hey, if you can read, you're a musician right?
Wait! No!
If you can talk, you're a musician right?

 

[Change of POETS]

Someone should teach you about semantics. The amount of redundant idiocy in this thread is astounding.

I wonder what the true definition of a "Musician" is...

Main Entry: mu·si·cian
Pronunciation: myu-'zi-sh&n
Function: noun
: a composer, conductor, or performer of music;

Which begs the question, what defines "music"..?

Main Entry: mu·sic
Pronunciation: 'myü-zik
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive

Etymology: Middle English musik, from Old French musique, from Latin musica, from Greek mousikE any art presided over by the Muses, especially music, from feminine of mousikos of the Muses, from Mousa Muse

1 a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

The operative word in that last sentence, is or. All three aren't needed.

Welcome to 6th grade research.

Based on official definitions the entire world is using, one can assume those who perform anything rhythm based, is in fact a musician.

Whether you like it or not, and regardless of pitch*.


*This word never mentioned in either definition yet your only arguing point. How ironic.

 

[bknot1]

:lol: Change went and got the definition for him...

thats whats up

 

[lateforwork]

That is why they have back up singers and vocalists... most rappers can't perfect every aspect of their performance.

 

[famous beagle]

It's funny, because when I think how easy it is to write my hip-hop music, I generally assume it must be 10 times easier to write rock or pop, or any other music. I mean, Hip-Hop utilizes at least 16 bars of lyrics per verse, where the bubble-gum rock like Nickelback might use 4 lines of lyrics over a full verse.

So it's safe to assume all rockers or other "musicians" are complete idiots, right? I mean wow... I use more lyrics in one verse than they write for a full song. What morons.

I hate Nickelback as well, but I hate hip hop even more.

What you're forgetting is that all that time you spend thinking up lyrics for your verses is more than compensated for by the time you save by using the same 4-bar supporting music throughout the entire song.

 

[Change of POETS]

I hate Nickelback as well, but I hate hip hop even more.

What you're forgetting is that all that time you spend thinking up lyrics for your verses is more than compensated for by the time you save by using the same 4-bar supporting music throughout the entire song.

If you can't decipher sarcastic replies to assanine posts, I suggest you take up a reading comprehension course at your local community college.

99% of us in this forum, appreciate every genre of music, and garner what we can from it to improve our own music.

Congratulations on hating hip-hop. You've proven yourself to be another close-minded idiot.

 

[famous beagle]

If you can't decipher sarcastic replies to assanine posts, I suggest you take up a reading comprehension course at your local community college.

99% of us in this forum, appreciate every genre of music, and garner what we can from it to improve our own music.

Congratulations on hating hip-hop. You've proven yourself to be another close-minded idiot.

Perhaps you should learn to spell "asinine" before you start recommending college courses.

Or better yet, don't try to use impressive words that are beyond your grasp.


And you're right. I shouldn't have said I hate hip hop. That's not true. I LOATHE it.

I don't know what you're smoking when you say "99% of people in this forum appreciate every genre of music." I haven't met ONE person in here about which that can be said. I hate rape. Does that make me close-minded? I hate cigarette companies. Does that make me close-minded?

I happen to enjoy many different styles of music, including rock (and most of its sub-genres), jazz, blues, classical, some country, folk, etc. But I haven't heard one hip hop song that I like, so I feel comfortable stating that I hate hip hop. I don't see a big crime in that.

 

[Change of POETS]

Perhaps you should learn to spell "asinine" before you start recommending college courses.

Or better yet, don't try to use impressive words that are beyond your grasp.


And you're right. I shouldn't have said I hate hip hop. That's not true. I LOATHE it.

I don't know what you're smoking when you say "99% of people in this forum appreciate every genre of music." I haven't met ONE person in here about which that can be said. I hate rape. Does that make me close-minded? I hate cigarette companies. Does that make me close-minded?

I happen to enjoy many different styles of music, including rock (and most of its sub-genres), jazz, blues, classical, some country, folk, etc. But I haven't heard one hip hop song that I like, so I feel comfortable stating that I hate hip hop. I don't see a big crime in that.

You hate hip-hop, yet you feel it's worth your time to try and drive that point home in a hip-hop forum, right?

I think Grover has more common sense than you.

Excuse my typo. I still stand by my statement that your lack of comprehension of words strung together (generally called a sentence) and the implied sarcasm by use of a smiley, indicates you're a moron.

I dislike country. I dislike many forms of music. Yet I appreciate the creativity and talent it takes to make that genre of music. I also realize, that I can learn something from almost any genre of music as well. Unfortunately you're too ignorant to look below the surface for good hip-hop. Maybe you should put that "beagle" to use, and have him sniff out something worthwhile for you.

Of course, according to you rape and cigarette companies are on par with forms of art. That's an interesting perspective. Ignorant, yet interesting. Nothing like comparing apples and oranges...err, apples and watermelons. Idiot. Grow a brain cell and try to understand the idiocy coming out of your head before you decide to post it up for the world to see. That of course would constitute a thought process on your behalf, where one is surely lacking.

Or you could simply leave our forum with a shred of dignity, and shut your mouth.

 

[bknot1]

I hate hip hop even more

WOW.. i have never in my life heard this before.. the reason people like you (I take it your a workin musician) is because the Hip Hop artist have takin music to another level and more money for the industry...and they are making more money then you, on the radio everywhere, being played in your house..in some form or another..and your upset cause you have done all this playin and learning your craft and here comes some 19 + yr old kid that is makin millions while you trying to find your next gig..

to hate on a genre that not going anywhere(its here to stay ..get over it)..cause the music industry make too much damn money on Urban Music..is just wrong...

you should respect every artist talent.. no one is hating on what you do..and yes we respect everything and genre does..but that dont mean i have to listen to it..

ok ..i'm done..

 

[famous beagle]

WOW.. i have never in my life heard this before.. the reason people like you (I take it your a workin musician) is because the Hip Hop artist have takin music to another level and more money for the industry...and they are making more money then you, on the radio everywhere, being played in your house..in some form or another..and your upset cause you have done all this playin and learning your craft and here comes some 19 + yr old kid that is makin millions while you trying to find your next gig..

to hate on a genre that not going anywhere(its here to stay ..get over it)..cause the music industry make too much damn money on Urban Music..is just wrong...

you should respect every artist talent.. no one is hating on what you do..and yes we respect everything and genre does..but that dont mean i have to listen to it..

ok ..i'm done..

This post represents one of the MAIN reasons I hate hip hop. It's a major propent in the dumbing down of music and art in general. You've people like you calling themselves a "producah" or CEO and you can't even string together and intelligent sentence.


And, this is for both you idiots.... I never said "rap sucked" or "hip hop sucked." I was stating an opinion. "I hate hip hop."

I am perfectly entitled to like, dislike, hate, or love anything I damn well please, and who are are you to tell me differently? This includes art, music, apples, oranges, watermelon, and whatever the hell else.

I never said that rap/hip hop doesn't require any talent whatsoever. Ok so some of them can rhyme with lots of words. Sure that takes some talent --- especially when they're improvising on the spot. I think that's quite impressive. But that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't move me the least. There's not much, if anything, I want to take from that and apply to my music.

And I would hardly start measuring the value of something by how much money it's making. People bought thousands of pet rocks in the seventies and made someone a millionaire. People are idiots. Lots of people bought New Kids on the Block, Billy Ray Cyrus, and the fucking Macarena song.

Are you honestly going to tell me you listen to a song like "Macarena" or "I'm too Sexy" or "My Humps" and think positive thoughts? Why in the world? There is far too much music that I actually WANT to hear and maybe learn from to bother with that type of stuff. That doesn't make me close-minded. It's just practical thinking. There have even been a few hip hop moments that I found tolerable, like some Eminem. I think he has a unique sense of rhythm and rhyme that I find interesting, and it stands out from the rest to me. But it's not something I would say I "enjoy" listening to. But as for the large majority of the dope, pimp slappin', gangstuh bitches telling me how bad ass they are and how many hoes they be pimpin', I couldn't really care less.

I am not one of those people that hates something because it sells (I like Counting Crows, some Nirvana, Coldplay, the Beatles, and plenty of other commercially successful acts), but judging something's value based on sales is pointless in either fashion.

Mozart, arguably the greatest composer in our history, died broke (actually with tons of debt) and was buried in an unmarked grave.

 

[peritus]

Bach, Paganini, Art Tatum, Django Reinhardt, Oscar Peterson, Chet Atkins, Segovia, Louis Armstrong, Itzahk Perlman, Yo Yo Ma, Mark O'Connor, etc....

They're musicians and if you couple that sort of musicianship up with being an entertainer, then you've got world class all time talent.

I really don't have time to read the rest of the thread, but you are wrong, IN MY OPINION.

I disagree with a super-superiority-complex...

How can you tell me that Bob Dylan isn't a musician, if the man creates music (be that original or not)?? I call BS....

Also, this entertainer thing.......... You do realize that Louis Armstrong's "High Society" had DIALOG that was recited each time, live at least....

Next thing you'll say is that Barry Manilow is a better singer than Janis Joplin...

Cough Cough... May I ask.. Why exactly it makes a difference? This is worse the quazi-genres... We'd be better off debating the war in Iraq.. more productive, at least..


Blah!

 

[Change of POETS]

Are you honestly going to tell me you listen to a song like "Macarena" or "I'm too Sexy" or "My Humps" and think positive thoughts? Why in the world? There is far too much music that I actually WANT to hear and maybe learn from to bother with that type of stuff. That doesn't make me close-minded. It's just practical thinking. There have even been a few hip hop moments that I found tolerable, like some Eminem. I think he has a unique sense of rhythm and rhyme that I find interesting, and it stands out from the rest to me. But it's not something I would say I "enjoy" listening to. But as for the large majority of the dope, pimp slappin', gangstuh bitches telling me how bad ass they are and how many hoes they be pimpin', I couldn't really care less.

Guess what, genius. I don't care for 90% of that commercialized, corporate crap either.

If it doesn't have a message or challenge me to think or improve myself as a person, I don't care for it.

Maybe you should stop forming your opinions based on the crap Clear Channel plays.

I'm done with you. You're a typical, elitist, prick.

 

[Fyre]

change got at him enough......... im just goin 2 sit back wit some popcorn and watch the show......


*kicks feet up*

 

[famous beagle]

Guess what, genius. I don't care for 90% of that commercialized, corporate crap either.

If it doesn't have a message or challenge me to think or improve myself as a person, I don't care for it.

Maybe you should stop forming your opinions based on the crap Clear Channel plays.

I'm done with you. You're a typical, elitist, prick.

Here's the thing though. Yes I'm basing my opinion of hip hop on what I hear on the radio. I'm not pretending that I go and seek out the "better" underground hip hop.

Are you going to tell me that you honestly seek out the "better" underground country music?

The difference is that I'm not a hypocrite; I'm being honest.