When mixing drums do you....

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chadsxe

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Lets take the close mixed snare track for example. When the snare is not being hit there is going to be bleed from the rest of the kit. With that in mind do you envelope/gate/cut that bleed out of the mix?
 
chadsxe said:
Lets take the close mixed snare track for example. When the snare is not being hit there is going to be bleed from the rest of the kit. With that in mind do you envelope/gate/cut that bleed out of the mix?
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There's a lot of natural sound in that bleed - work with it.

Bleed is your friend........
 
chadsxe said:
Lets take the close mixed snare track for example. When the snare is not being hit there is going to be bleed from the rest of the kit. With that in mind do you envelope/gate/cut that bleed out of the mix?
Click to expand...

Chad, I think the biggest mistake you can make in music production is to make "rules", or to do something "because I always do that".

I often quote this guy who I kind of hired to be a consultant when I was builing my first studio.

"Learning how to record well is doing a bunch of things you will never do again".

Basically, that opened up the whole world or doing production for me!

How this applies to your question? Basically, there may be times when that "bleed" is undesireable, and other times when it is desireable. There may be times when you need that bleed 6dB quieter, or maybe 18dB quieter.

Each song "needs" certain things to happen to achieve the production goal (ie. "sound") that is sought.

I don't always like the bleed from certain drum mics. Other times, it helps "gel" the kit together better. Sometimes, I want the "effect" fo the snare being "gated" so I use a noise gate. Other times, I want that compressed sound, complete with the pumping/breathing sound. It just depends, and there is no set rules to what will make any particular mix "rawk". I DO have my preferences, and I do have my "approaches" to achieving certain production goals. They are different than say Bruce Bears is. Provided that I make the producer happy (in your case, you might be the producer), it doesn't matter which production approach I took.

Comprede?
 
I say ditch the bleed! :D Gate it the hell outa' there! Bleed is the enemy!
 
Heh...this is rich!

ONE NIGHT ONLY, THE SHOWDOWN THE WHOLE HOME RECORDING WORLD HAS WAITED TO DEBATE

BLEED VS NO BLEED!


May not be available on your local channel. Check your local listings
 
Bleed doesn't bug me at all. If you set your mics up right it's a non-issue.
 
Bleed is ambience that you don't want.
Ambience is bleed that you do want.
 
I just mixed a song where the drums were recorded on 4 tracks.

1. kick
2. snare
3 & 4. room mics (HOT)

The bass was live with the drums, so it was all over the room mics too. The drums were recorded to 1/4" tape and PUSHED hard into the red. It was a pretty neat sound. Not the most professional, but definitely sounded the way the band wanted the drums to sound.
 
ryanlikestorock said:
I just mixed a song where the drums were recorded on 4 tracks.

1. kick
2. snare
3 & 4. room mics (HOT)

The bass was live with the drums, so it was all over the room mics too. The drums were recorded to 1/4" tape and PUSHED hard into the red. It was a pretty neat sound. Not the most professional, but definitely sounded the way the band wanted the drums to sound.
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Same here, I had my class reproduce a John Bonham drum sound by using the Glyn/Andy Johns approach. 2 ribbon mics spaced 2 1/2 sticks away from the snare, a kick mic (D112) and a PZM mic in another room. Sounded very close to the original except the snare wasn't a black beauty.

I then had the class mic all of the drums (421's on toms, 57 on snare) and vote on which sound they liked best.

The 4 mic technique won.

I won't say that it's always the best approach (will depend on music genre), but the point is bleed should be used as part of the whole.

You may want to gate the aux sends though if you're going for that big 'ol reverb on the snare sound.
 
I come from the Brian Wilson / Phil Spector school of music production where the bleeding IS the magic. Spector often recorded 15+ instruments to 4 tracks, live in the same room. Crank up "Be My Baby" to hear what he did with that technique.
 
masteringhouse said:
You may want to gate the aux sends though if you're going for that big 'ol reverb on the snare sound.
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Hey, that's something I never thought of...hmmm
 
SittinIdol said:
Hey, that's something I never thought of...hmmm
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While we're on that subject, don't limit aux send processing to just gating/expansion. Try EQing the aux send to "darken" a verb (makes it more realistic IMHO and distant). May want to compress it to even out snare hits to the 'verb. Delay it to get some pre-delay, flange/chorus it and other shtuff depending on what you want to accomplish.
 
ryanlikestorock said:
I come from the Brian Wilson / Phil Spector school of music production where the bleeding IS the magic. Spector often recorded 15+ instruments to 4 tracks, live in the same room. Crank up "Be My Baby" to hear what he did with that technique.
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Just don't add harps to rock tracks like he did with the Beatles! :)
 
masteringhouse said:
Just don't add harps to rock tracks like he did with the Beatles! :)
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Are you kidding? I think obscure instruments are exactly what the genre needs. Electric, distorted guitar is one of the most horrible sounds there is. :)

Search around to see what fellow Canadians Broken Social Scene and The Arcade Fire are doing with studio experimentation. :)
 
ryanlikestorock said:
Are you kidding? I think obscure instruments are exactly what the genre needs. Electric, distorted guitar is one of the most horrible sounds there is. :)

Search around to see what fellow Canadians Broken Social Scene and The Arcade Fire are doing with studio experimentation. :)
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Experimenting with new instrumentation is different than over-producing an album. After all, the Beatles were probably the first band to include instruments like the sitar on a rock album, as well electronic effects that couldn't be reproduced on the live stage. This type of experimentation enhanced the song, it didn't "bloat" it and take it over.

Compare the original and "naked" versions of the song "Let It Be" (Spector's production is the reason they put out the naked version of the album). On the original album you'll hear John Lennon sayin "Ah the angel's coming" as a joke on Spector's production.

On Harrison's re-release of his first solo album in the liner notes Harrison apologizes for Spector's over production of the album.

Granted, he's an icon in the industry and has done great work, however I think many people will agree that sometimes he took things a bit too far.
 
Of course! Spector IS overproduction!

Yeah, there's a limit and he often crossed it. Still, I'm glad he did.
 
I liked it when Phil Spector made Johnny Ramone play the intro to Rock And Roll High School for several hours on end. Rock on.
 
rapedbyape said:
I liked it when Phil Spector made Johnny Ramone play the intro to Rock And Roll High School for several hours on end. Rock on.
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I heard Spector wouldn't let Joey play on his collection of pinball machines. Joey thought he was weird. Apparently he was right.
 
I read that Joey and Phil Spector got on really well. And that he also waved a gun at Johnny Ramone.
 
Phase-Correct OH's?

Hey does anybody here scoot the Overhead tracks up a few samples to get them into line with the snare, hat, kick, and toms?
 
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