When bouncing a beat from Reason to Logic, should it be Stereo or Mono?

[cadillacvernon]

I am a rapper who creates my own beats in Reason.

When I export the beat to a WAV file and then import that WAV file into Logic Audio, should I create a stereo track for it or a mono track?

All I want to do is have the beat and then one or two vocal tracks and maybe a MIDI track for a hook (like horn samples and what not).

Should it be stereo or mono and why does it matter? What would sound better? Would it sound too hollow just with a mono beat and mono vocal track?

I've noticed when I import the beat into a stereo track in Logic and then move the right fader, it controls "some of the beat" and the vocal track, which I don't really like. Any way around this?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[bardo]

A lot depends on what kind of beats you are making.
Full kit?
Dance beats?
With a full kit I like stereo so I can leave the kick in the middle,hi-hat little to the left,cymbols spread with crash right and ride left,tomw that pan across when played.
But thats my taste(Prog rock)
When you bounce to your daw you should record the drums(beats)on a seperate track from your vocals.That way they are independently controlled.

Bardo

 

[ches1]

stereo, always.

If you lift sample from vinyl you should have already noticed that most music is in stereo(e.g. horns to the left, string to the right, etc..)so if you convert it to mono you will lose that good mix an engineer worked so hard to acomplish some 30-40years ago.

if you only use synth and don't pan anything, start panning NOW.
mono music sucks.

 

[bennychico11]

mono music sucks.

dammit...then all my voice recordings must suck

you only need it to be stereo if the original source has a stereo image. For example if you're making a kick beat that has no reverb or stereo imaging effects on it...you'll be fine with mono. If you're blending in voices, horns, panning instruments to different sides of the speakers....then you need to bounce it to a stereo file to keep those images.
stereo is not 'better' than mono, or vice versa. It's just they both do different things. Stereo files allow you to utilize two channels of imaging simultaneously while mono limits you to one. But for some instruments you only need it in mono. In fact most instruments are recorded in mono to begin with. It's not until you get into stereo micing techniques or add effects that it starts to matter.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

dammit...then all my voice recordings must suck

you only need it to be stereo if the original source has a stereo image. For example if you're making a kick beat that has no reverb or stereo imaging effects on it...you'll be fine with mono. If you're blending in voices, horns, panning instruments to different sides of the speakers....then you need to bounce it to a stereo file to keep those images.
stereo is not 'better' than mono, or vice versa. It's just they both do different things. Stereo files allow you to utilize two channels of imaging simultaneously while mono limits you to one. But for some instruments you only need it in mono. In fact most instruments are recorded in mono to begin with. It's not until you get into stereo micing techniques or add effects that it starts to matter.

Absolutely correct.

It's simple; if it's a mono track in Reason, copy it as a mono track. If it's a stereo track for a reason - i.e. if the source image is actually a stereo image and not just a single source needlessly recorded to a stereo track - copy it as a stereo track.

What you want to do with them in Logic from there is totally up to you. But copying each track as a stereo track will do absolutely nothing to help you, and could in fact hinder your panning options.

G.

 

[ches1]

I'm pretty sure that he meant to bounce all of his Reason tracks to a single wav file, asking if that wav should be mono or stereo, then rap over it.

having an whole beat(drums, bass, whatever instruments, scratch, etc) in mono is bad.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'm pretty sure that he meant to bounce all of his Reason tracks to a single wav file, asking if that wav should be mono or stereo, then rap over it.

having an whole beat(drums, bass, whatever instruments, scratch, etc) in mono is bad.

Agreed on all counts. I guess where the ambiguity lies here is in his use of the term "bounce" - a term which I hate because these days different people have different definitions for it.

If he's talking about bouncing as simply copying, moving or exporting tracks, then I'd stick to my and Benny's evaluation. If he's actually talking about mixing down the tracks and bouncing the mixdown, then you are absolutely correct.

G.

 

[bennychico11]

If he's actually talking about mixing down the tracks and bouncing the mixdown, then you are absolutely correct.

G.

IF those tracks he's mixing down need to retain a stereo image. It ALL depends on WHAT he's bouncing down. He could well be keeping everything in the center and not need the extra channel of information.

Of course, I'm being too literal on this. I just don't want to confuse the OP into thinking he has to always bounce to stereo because, as ches1 stated, "mono music sucks." It doesn't...not anymore than stereo sucks compared to surround sound (although surround music does sound pretty damn good! )

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

having an whole beat(drums, bass, whatever instruments, scratch, etc) in mono is bad.

IF those tracks he's mixing down need to retain a stereo image. It ALL depends on WHAT he's bouncing down.

It's that damn refusal in the hip hop genre to use standard audio engineering definitions used in every other music genre in the world again, I think.

If I understand what ches1 is saying, he's referring to the entire backing mix sans vocals as "the beat". In which case, yeah, that would be a stereo submix.

I swear, if anybody uses the term "producer" in this thread, innocent civilians could get killed.

G.

 

[ches1]

glen, you understood me 100%

it's more of a bad habit than a refusal to say beat when reffering to all the instrumentation without the vocal.
I'm sorry I didn't knew it was getting on yall nerve. if I say "music" in the future is it ok??

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

glen, you understood me 100%

it's more of a bad habit than a refusal to say beat when reffering to all the instrumentation without the vocal.
I'm sorry I didn't knew it was getting on yall nerve. if I say "music" in the future is it ok??

No problem, ches, it's not you getting on my nerve, it's the whole failure to communicate between communities because the hip hop community has developed a vocabulary all it's own that get's on one's nerves.

And no, I'm not a hip hop hater (I like the modern solo work of the old Wu Tang boys quite a bit, for example). It's just that they have taken words like "bounce", "beat" and "producer", words that have fairly specific and agreed upon meanings in every other genre from Tuvan Throat Singing to Hawaiian Reggae, and given them their own different meanings. That makes things like this forum really difficult to navigate.

I mean, there are rhythm tracks, accompaniment tracks, backing tracks, etc. To lump them all together under the term "the beat" (which is usually understood to mean the tempo, the time signature, the timing of the main rhythm-holding track) makes it awfully hard. And just calling it "the music" is no help either, to be honest, because we'll still ask which part of "the music" you are referring to.

Again, don't take it personally. Just understand that we *are* talking different languages, and that some truths may get lost in the translation when that happens.

G.

 

[bennychico11]

If I understand what ches1 is saying, he's referring to the entire backing mix sans vocals as "the beat". In which case, yeah, that would be a stereo submix.

lol, no I know that he's talking about the instrumental mix. I'm just saying technically that mix could just be a mono mix...if for example he's going for a lo-fi kind of feel. Or, as you've mentioned, he could be exporting individual tracks for later mixing.

Of course, I don't want to get into too many technicalities. It just sounds like the original poster doesn't have quite the grasp on the difference between mono and stereo. I was just trying to give him more of a little 101 on the subject than just saying "stereo is better"

 

[ches1]

Again, don't take it personally.

naw it's cool, I'm all about communication
I guess "instrumental" will be better, anyway...

I also feel you about the term Producer,
to me:
beatmaker= me, and everyone who just make random "instrumental"
Producer= people who actually MAKE albums, who has the Vision from intro to outro, who guides the musicians, tell them what/how to play to acheive a certain style and who lead the creative side of it. I put Quincy Jones and Dr.Dre in this category for example.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

beatmaker= me, and everyone who just make random "instrumental"
Producer= people who actually MAKE albums, who has the Vision from intro to outro, who guides the musicians, tell them what/how to play to acheive a certain style and who lead the creative side of it. I put Quincy Jones and Dr.Dre in this category for example.

There ya go.

G.

 

[cadillacvernon]

Hey thanks for all the answers everyone. I think I get what you guys mean about only using stereo depending on the source.

When I said "beat" I actually was referring to just the drum beat (i make other music besides hiphop, i guess that's why lol). I usually use Logic to record the other MIDI stuff and vocal tracks cuz I just like it better than the Arrange window in reason.

So if I understand correctly... if I just took say a Dr. Rex loop and threw it on one track in Reason and then bounced it (exported it) to a wav file, then I would not need to import it to a stereo track in Logic because the panning is straight up the middle anyway, so you would still hear it on both left and right sides. Yes?

And the only time I would need to import to a stereo Logic track is if I used Redrum to make a beat with a full drum kit (with snare panned one way, and ride panned the other way) or if I added different Reason instruments (like synths and what not) and panned them in different directions.

Is this right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

So does this mean there is nothing wrong with using a mono drumloop as the main drum track (no other drums) and just rapping over that? And if it is just a simple loop in reason that is panned to the center, then there is nothing to gain by importing it to a stereo track?

Thanks, sorry for the newbieness, I just never really understood stereo and mono and all that

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

So if I understand correctly... if I just took say a Dr. Rex loop and threw it on one track in Reason and then bounced it (exported it) to a wav file, then I would not need to import it to a stereo track in Logic because the panning is straight up the middle anyway, so you would still hear it on both left and right sides. Yes?

And the only time I would need to import to a stereo Logic track is if I used Redrum to make a beat with a full drum kit (with snare panned one way, and ride panned the other way) or if I added different Reason instruments (like synths and what not) and panned them in different directions.

Is this right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, it's mostly right . Just to make sure it's all-the-way right...

You've got the second part basically right; you only make it a stereo track if the source information is already in stereo - i.e. there is some kind of left-to-right location information already there. This would be true not only of multiple instruments panned differently as you say, but also of (for example) a track of a single source but with a stereo effect on it (stereo reverb, stereo chorus, etc.), or of a stereo source itself such as a stereo electric keyboard.

A mono track is usually used just for a single source - a single microphone, a single instrument direct, a single MIDI instrument, etc. - where there is no L-R information to capture or keep.

This, however, does not necessarily mean it the mono track is stuck at center-panning. In fact it's just the opposite. When you get a mono track into Logic, you can then pan that mono source anywhere on the soundstage you wish. A stereo track, OTOH, already has the soundstage covered and already has the pan information encoded into it. In most DAWs you cannot then move the stereo image around at all with the pan control. In fact, if you record a mono source (just a kick drum, set's say) and stick it onto a stereo track at the center, you are stuck with it at center (unless you convert it back to mono). But stick it onto a mono track and you'll have the freedom to move it wherever you like.

G.

 

[cadillacvernon]

A mono track is usually used just for a single source - a single microphone, a single instrument direct, a single MIDI instrument, etc. - where there is no L-R information to capture or keep.

This, however, does not necessarily mean it the mono track is stuck at center-panning. In fact it's just the opposite. When you get a mono track into Logic, you can then pan that mono source anywhere on the soundstage you wish. A stereo track, OTOH, already has the soundstage covered and already has the pan information encoded into it. In most DAWs you cannot then move the stereo image around at all with the pan control. In fact, if you record a mono source (just a kick drum, set's say) and stick it onto a stereo track at the center, you are stuck with it at center (unless you convert it back to mono). But stick it onto a mono track and you'll have the freedom to move it wherever you like.

I think I see what you mean. So in other words, stereo tracks are designed to not be panned, but have L and R balanced in both speakers. And even if you could pan them, it would defeat the purpose of it being in stereo and would make more sense if you just converted it to mono? Right?

Well, it's mostly right . Just to make sure it's all-the-way right...

You've got the second part basically right; you only make it a stereo track if the source information is already in stereo - i.e. there is some kind of left-to-right location information already there. This would be true not only of multiple instruments panned differently as you say, but also of (for example) a track of a single source but with a stereo effect on it (stereo reverb, stereo chorus, etc.), or of a stereo source itself such as a stereo electric keyboard.

Hmm... I'm not sure I know what you mean by "stereo reverb" and "stereo chorus." Aren't reverb and chorus just effects that you can put on either a mono or stereo track? I didn't think the effects themselves were mono or stereo.

So say I lift a sample from a song or download it off of a website but I have no idea who recorded it. I know how to determine if it's a stereo file, cuz I just load it up into an audio editor and see that it has two channels. But how would I determine if it has a stereo effect on it?

Since you mentioned keyboards... How would you go about panning a piano track? Like for instance I have a project consisting of a looped drum beat, vocals, bass and piano (MIDI controller with a piano patch). The piano plays the "main melody" throughout the song. I'm not planning to add any more instruments/tracks. So far I've got everything panned straight up the middle, simply because it would sound weird to me with the piano or bass panned L or R. But from what you guys are saying, it is amateurish to pan everything straight up the middle. Should I pan the piano anyway a little bit L or R anyway? Or should I set it up in Logic so that some notes are panned one way and some are panned the other way?

Sorry for so many questions. Thanks for helping a dumb noob everyone.

 

[bennychico11]

I think I see what you mean. So in other words, stereo tracks are designed to not be panned, but have L and R balanced in both speakers. And even if you could pan them, it would defeat the purpose of it being in stereo and would make more sense if you just converted it to mono? Right?

a stereo track is simply two mono tracks...one for each speaker. This is why you have to playback stereo music with two speakers. What happens when you pan a track is it's affecting the volume in one speaker or another. Take a simple mono track of a voice for example. If you pan it in the middle the voice is coming out of both speakers at the same volume. Now as you slowly start to pan it left the sound waves aren't really moving in front of you, the volume in the right speaker is just decreasing while the volume in the left is increasing. It gives the affect that something is moving in front of us.

A stereo track can be panned if you want it to be...but then you'll just be panning the individual left/right channels that are supposed to be going to their respective left/right speakers. So now as you pan the left channel over to the right, you'll be losing signal in the left speaker and it will start to sound weird. Try it...bring in a stereo song and mess around with the panning.

Hmm... I'm not sure I know what you mean by "stereo reverb" and "stereo chorus." Aren't reverb and chorus just effects that you can put on either a mono or stereo track? I didn't think the effects themselves were mono or stereo.

Reverb and chorus can be used as spatial effects. Typically they are applied to mono signals and output a stereo signal in return. When applying reverb we generally are trying to get the signal to sound as if it's in a room of some sort. Similarly to the room you're sitting in, sound bounces all around your ears. So applying reverb in stereo we try and emulate what a room would sound like.
Again, try it yourself. Apply a stereo reverb to a mono track and listen to it...then do it again with the same settings but keep a mono signal. You'll notice it doesn't sound the same at all.

So say I lift a sample from a song or download it off of a website but I have no idea who recorded it. I know how to determine if it's a stereo file, cuz I just load it up into an audio editor and see that it has two channels. But how would I determine if it has a stereo effect on it?

simply by listening to it. Does the sound coming out of the speakers sound different in each speaker? Watch the meters...are they bouncing up and down at different levels? If yes, then it's in stereo.
If the engineer panned everything in the middle and then made a CD of the song. Each speaker channel would sound the exact same and the meter levels of the music would be the exact same.

Since you mentioned keyboards... How would you go about panning a piano track? Like for instance I have a project consisting of a looped drum beat, vocals, bass and piano (MIDI controller with a piano patch). The piano plays the "main melody" throughout the song. I'm not planning to add any more instruments/tracks. So far I've got everything panned straight up the middle, simply because it would sound weird to me with the piano or bass panned L or R. But from what you guys are saying, it is amateurish to pan everything straight up the middle. Should I pan the piano anyway a little bit L or R anyway? Or should I set it up in Logic so that some notes are panned one way and some are panned the other way?

if you're working with loops...typically they are already set up to playback as is. So if you bring a piano loop in, and it shows up as stereo in your program...if you leave the panning sliders so that Left is left and Right is right, it will sound the way it was intended too by the engineer who recorded it.
Now if you bring a bass track in and it's ALSO a stereo track...but after you listen to it you don't hear any difference in the channels and the meters are bouncing up and down together, well then you have a mono signal that is playing back on a stereo track. This is fine and is very common with loops that were imported off of audio CDs. Since the audio CD standard burns stereo CD's always...the engineer has to accept the fact his mono bass tracks are going to be converted to stereo. They still sound the same though.

Now, if you want to change the way your tracks are panned for your purposes...do so. There's no harm in panning it the way you want to. But for the most part, pianos that have been recorded are panned off to the L/R a big and bass tracks are panned in the middle. Lead vocal tracks are also panned in the middle and typically snare and kick drums too. But these aren't set rules. This is audio, so use your ears and your own judgment as to what sounds good to you.