whats the best 4 track Drum technique?

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JoshO

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I need to record drums with 4 tracks and i need to know mic typs, polar patterns and placements, I also need to know what kind of effects or gates and what kind of FREE accoustic treatments to use. I am looking for the best Drum sound with no budget.

Thanks Josh O, from Mass
 
Do you mean you only have a four track recorder available or it's a larger machine on which you've designated four tracks for use as drum tracks?

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I haven´t tried this on my own yet, but this is a tip a friend gave me how to get a nice vintage drumsound not hight tech w three mics.

You need three 8-ribbons to do the trick, at least two of them the same.

Start with the two mics that is most similar (they should be the same model). Place one over the snare, of course with the 8pattern 0/180 degrees to it, distance around 2,5 drumsticks. Place the other one at the floor tomb, 2,5 drumsticks away from the snare in a line where the midst of floor tomb and snare is 0/180 degrees to the 8pattern. Height is like some inches above the floor tomb. Get it? The snare should be in the 90 degree of theese two.

Put the last 8ribbon in front of the set, low. Think of it as a room/kick mic. Experiment with the distance.

When you mix the tracks pan the two similar (same) 8ribbons snare/tomb-mic out ten and 2 o´clock, and in the same volume level. Put the room/kick at twelve and play around with the level.

You hade four drumtracks right? Do a test and see where it does the best job - a close for the kick = attack, or under the snare the get a better crack?

When I try it in the close future I´ll put all tracks to a bus and tapecompression just a little tubedistorted bit...

IF you try this, please write me an email and tell me how it worked out. My friend runs a studio for an extra income and his trix is worth a shot. When it comes to phase problems the 8ribbons are pretty forgiving, but IF you feel seasick and lacks bass in the take try to phase reverse one of the 8ribbon-tracks. good luck midgetzone@hotmail.com /samuel
 
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Or you can do the norm: SM57 or something like it on the snare. D112 or whatever on the kick. And two overheads. I usually have one overhead pointed right down at the snare, the other one over the floor tom also pointing at the middle of the snare, same height.
 
I'd suggest, also, that if you aren't in really good sounding room, that you stick with a cardiod pattern pair of overheads. I have a pair of MSH-1a's (omni's) that I'd love to use as overheads, because they sound really nice, but they pick up too much room noise and lose a lot of definition (in the couple of tests I did). So, I think I'm going to be using some AT 2020's as overheads. They sounded a little better to me in my situation.

Also, google the recorderman technique for overhead placement. It seems goofy at first, but alot of people sware by it.
 
andyhix said:
Also, google the recorderman technique for overhead placement. It seems goofy at first, but alot of people sware by it.
Click to expand...

THAT ONE! I couldn't remember what they called it. I use a slightly skewed version of that.
 
I really like the recorderman overhead position with close mics on the snare and kick. I've used cardioid, figure 8, and omni mics for the overheads and had good success with all of them.

There's a video here:
 
JoshO said:
... and what kind of FREE accoustic treatments to use. I am looking for the best Drum sound with no budget.
Click to expand...
THe mic end's been covered, now get yourself some fiberglass insulation and make some gobos around the drums. These could be 4' high x 6', the back side light plywood, stuff them with the fiberglass at least 3-4" deep. Then a few 2' x 4' 2-3" hung overhead. Fiber boards (705) work well or a light frame. Cover the 'glass with cloth.
All very cheap. At least the getting down on the knees to build them is free. :)
All this serves to knock down the hot reflections off the room and cleans up the kit sound.
 
Well, I dont want to sound redundant but here's a pretty cheap and efficient way to go about recording drums with 4 mics:
SM 57 on the snare
52 on the kick
ECM 8000's as OH mics, as they are very linear SDC's, place them low and at the same distance from the center of the snare using a low cut at around 150 Hz.
Play around with mic positioning and preamps. If the room is not terrible, you should be able to get a decent sounding drum set (IMO this setup, given the room, can sound really cool and raw).
Carlos
 
Best acoustic sound, no budget, but free treatments?

Money no object, I'd rent some time at a local studio with a big room, rent a pair of Neumann U87's, a pair of Shure SM81's, an SM57, transformerless SM57, Beyer M201, AKG 414, D112, Beta 52, RE20, and probably a dozen other mics and play around.

Most likely, I'd end up with the U87's overhead spaced, either the SM57 no transformer or 414 on the snare, and either a Beta 52 or RE20 on the kick, all depending on the style of music.

If I had a great room, a pair of 87's, and a couple more decent mics I'd only use four tracks to record drums :D

Free treatments...I've found that heavy blankets underneath toms (not touching, laying on the floor) help reduce sustain without killing ring. Moongel pads (about $10 at a store) help kill ring without sustain. Tape and tissue paper will kill both.

Try pillows in the bass drum, blankets just barely touching the heads, no front head, and a huge blanket tunnel over the bass drum as well.
 
Do you have to use only four mics, or can you record four tracks but use more mics?

In the past I've had to use only four tracks, but you can use as many mics as you want if you group them appropriately and send them to be recorded on four tracks.

For example, say you have two small-ish mixers. On the first, put snare on channel one and kick on channel two. Pan the snare hard left and kick hard right. On the second mixer, take all the other mics you'll be using (overheads, hi hat, toms, ride, whatever else you want to mic individually) and play around with the pan settings until you have a sound you like. Now you can record from the two outputs on the first mixer (which will give you isolated tracks of snare and kick) and the two outputs of the second mixer, which have the stereo mix of everything else. As many mics as you want, but only four tracks recorded.

It's not my first choice but with some fiddling it won't sound half bad.
 
drum sound

You may call me crazy (everyone else does till they hear) but I get some really great drum sounds by using a set of old Radio Shack condenser pencil mics......you cant get them anymore,bought them way back in the 70's...they came as a matched set....I have changed the cable on them.....I placed one at about the drummers eye level around 2 ft from the drumset...the other is overhead behind the drums.....it gives you that 60's drum vibe and sounds surprisingly full.......I have tried this with other mics,but can't getanywhere near the same sound......must be magic......but I guess at least 4 tracks is the way to go...... :confused:
 
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