whats more important for getting a good recording? compressor or preamp?

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videodrone

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my main focus is to have everything sound seprerate, like it has its sonic space and also getting GREAT tones on my digital recorder.

What should I invest in 1st?
 
A good mic is most important followed very closely by preamp. A compressor can definately help but the first two would be most critical.
 
in a lot of ways a compressor is going to give you LESS "sonic space"...

a compressor is a valuable tool for sure...but you don't need it for everything and it is easily overused.
 
a compressor has nothing to do with getting a good recording.

you use a compressor because your bass player and drummer don't rock steady.

you use a compressor because your guitar player can't lick it staccato so you clamp down on the notes after letting the top come through.

you use a compressor because your lead singer is all over the dynamic map and doesn't sway back from the mic when he/she gets emotional.

i haven't used a compressor during recording for 2 years. by utilizing the headroom of 24 bit recording i've been able to get good results; however, in the last 2 sessions i've done, I had two instances of crossing 0db during tracking. hence, i'm thinking of getting another compressor.

the only analog compressor i have now is an audio logic MT-66 compressor which i use on my mains to protect my monitors.

I want to find a 1/3 or 1/2 rack stereo/mono compressor (ie. has a link feature so not the RNC), but its got to really work in mono so I can double mic my acoustic guitar into the
RNP --> Comp --> US-428.
 
but wont a compressor give em a better recording, by compressiong the highs or vocals to make it sound moe professional?

I agree, compressors are often overused, but was still thinking it would give my overall sound a more proffesional sound,

thanks guys for the replies.
 
you gotta have a descent sound to start with before you compress. I mean if your recording sounds like krap its just gonna sound like compressed krap when you get through with the compressor.
The compressor can be helpful though in the situations that crosstudio described.
 
Track Rat said:
A good mic is most important followed very closely by preamp. A compressor can definately help but the first two would be most critical.
Click to expand...

I agree with Track Rat, and the room is important too.
 
A few things that were passed over on compression that lean towards the Positive side of delibirate use.
A compressor isn't just a tool to control sound when things go bad.

* It can control the level so the track becomes more focused and therefore brings it out more in the mix = presence

* It can create more punch and tightness by creating different attacks.

* It can smooth out a sound creating a softer sound.

* It can create more sustain on sounds like Guitar and cymbals/Toms

It is a very important tool in the studio. More important...less important.....I think the answer is - its all important to get a good sound :)
 
"It can create more punch and tightness by creating different attacks."

Yeah, okay, not that I've learned how to achieve that with compression yet, but I've got two questions:

1 Which is more useful/more common in the 'creating more tightness and punch using compression' department: tracking, or mixing?

2 Is No.1 a dumb question?
 
dobro said:
"It can create more punch and tightness by creating different attacks."

Yeah, okay, not that I've learned how to achieve that with compression yet, but I've got two questions:

1 Which is more useful/more common in the 'creating more tightness and punch using compression' department: tracking, or mixing?

2 Is No.1 a dumb question?
Click to expand...

Since the use of compression for attack is done mostly during mixing then that would be the time. Compression during recording is mostly for hotter levels and to stop clipping.
Usualy You will use compression during recording in a very subtle way and they will jump into action during a limited time/way.

If you understand that any..I mean ANY quality/color of sound is to be attacked from several directions you'll know that it's never one single thing that will do it.

Say you want to get more attack on a acoustic guitar -
Were you play (bridge/frets/etc...) will effect the attack. With pick/without pick. Some pre's will give more attack some will sound smoother. Mic position of course !. Mic choice !. EQ/or not
Etc...I'm sure you have read about it 1000 times....Bottom line is to leave compression for mixing. Once you compress during tracking you really can't undo it EVEN with a expander (although it might salvage a bad compression job). Remember that a compressor can enhance the attack and tightness but cant Create one from nothing.

You have to ask yourself also how busy is the mix. The more instruments playing the more compression you might need to gain control. You do a lot of small ensemble stuff right? say on a duo - many times you can drop compression alltogether.

Compression is also a stylistic issue. It's one thing to compress acoustic guitars in a Rock/pop concept and another in a folky kind.

And last but least - not every compressor is capable of getting good results in every aspect. Sometimes you'll need a fast working compressor and sometimes you'll need a colorfull sounding compressor. When you read somebody saying "4:1 ratio...that might work on his compressor and not yours.
You have to twiddle the knobs with your ears and not your hands.
 
videodrone said:
my main focus is to have everything sound seprerate, like it has its sonic space and also getting GREAT tones on my digital recorder.

What should I invest in 1st?
Click to expand...

With out a preamp you won't be able to use your micrphones, and then you can't record anything acoustic. So I'd say that a preamp is more important. Your didgital recorder probably has preamps, and quite likely has a compressor too.
 
I think it's a given that to record you're going to need a mic and a preamp. Which mic and preamp? A Neve 1072 and a Radio Shack Hi Ball to record say, an acoustic guitar would only be as good as the Hi Ball but a Neumann KM-184 to the preamps in a Mackie 1202(or even a Behringer:eek: ) wouldn't be too shabby. Comression can be the iceing on the cake and take it to the next level but I still feel it's mic, preamp, compressor in that order of importance.
 
videodrone said:
my main focus is to have everything sound seprerate, like it has its sonic space and also getting GREAT tones on my digital recorder.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that if these are your goals, then I would have to say neither.

If your main focus is to have everything sound separate and to have it's own sonic space, you'd be better served using the right instruments and voices (ones with distinct and/or unique tibres) that will exibit the kind of tone quality that will hold it's own in a busy mix.

Mic selection and placement would be your next important ally in that department. Each mic will tend to impart a unique texture. Placement will also go a long ways towards placing it within the frequency spectrum of the mix: ie - up close for more bass, directly on-axis for greater presence and articulation, off-axis for less presence, etc etc.

Finally, for separation and tone-shaping, your most important tool is EQ.

I would place the mic pre and compression in a close tie somewhere towards the very bottom of the list if these are your goals. Neither will do as much for shaping your tone as mic selection, placement and/or eq, although the mic pre will do a great deal more towards that end than a compressor. A compressor will help your tracks to have their own space dynamically, (by keeping the volume of the track consistant) but won't do as much in the sonic/tone shaping department . . . unless you're willing to shell out for something like an LA-2A, but that's another subject altogether. :D

In other words, tasteful and creative selection of outboard gear such as the mic pre or compressor will tend to affect your tone in more subtle ways. Some more obviously than others, but still subtle when compared to EQ, which is capable of much more dramatic tone-shaping. None of these gadgets will hold a candle to selecting the right instrument in the first place, and then micing/tracking them in such a way as to enhance the unique space you wish for them to occupy within a mix.
 
Thanks guys,

I have a Mesa Boogie amp > SM57 > Roland VS1680

Im basically conserned about guitar and then I use bass here and there, These are for my own demos, I figure when I find a bassist that fits my style, Ill worry about the bass more and have him fill in the empty bass lines,

Also I would put vocals as a higher priority than bass to, But I have a D.I for bass, that would be like my preamp for bass correct?
 
Also I would put vocals as a higher priority than bass to, But I have a D.I for bass, that would be like my preamp for bass correct?
Click to expand...

a passive DI box (like a whirlwind director) still needs a preamp to bost the signal.

an active DI box like the sansamp (theoretically) is both a DI and a preamp; however, the sansamp isn't hot enough on its own.

my main focus is to have everything sound seprerate, like it has its sonic space and also getting GREAT tones on my digital recorder.
Click to expand...

The mic --> pre-amp --> compressor chain takes care of the "GREAT tones on my digital recorder" part of your sentence, and i believe that having a great guitar, with a great amp, and a great mic, and a great pre-amp, and a great recorder with great converters is going to get you a great recording (raw tone).

what's your definition of great and is it relative to the gear you have?

hohner (steinberger clone) strat --> fender champ --> sm57 --> mackie 1604 --> alesis 3630 --> soundblaster (what i had)

fender american strat --> fender deville --> sm57 --> RNP --> RNC --> frontier designs tango24 (what i have)

LSR EB-1 --> sm57 --> Drawmer 1960 --> Apogee PSX-100. (what i wish for)

i think i eventually got a 'great' tone out of my first setup, and by great i mean as good as it gets for that level of gear.

after that, your ability to mix the song is going to determine whether everything has its own sonic space. of course, tracks are easier to mix when they are recorded well.
 
So if I got a two channel mic preamp, could I use that for going direct with the guitar and then teh other channel for teh mic for micing the guitar at teh same time?
 
Be sure to check out the model to be sure. I can't think of any off the top of my head that wouldn't allow for this, but you never know. :D Make sure it has a direct input. Some mic pres don't.
 
quote:
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Originally posted by videodrone
my main focus is to have everything sound seprerate, like it has its sonic space and also getting GREAT tones on my digital recorder.
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An EQ with sweepable mids may help here, but working on the arrangement is a better idea.

A compressor is better to control dynamics.
 
Get a channel strip. Mic pre, EQ, Compressor, all in one. You pay for one power supply, one chassis, one printed circuit board, so the cost is cheaper than buying everythig seperately. You can use the compressor section during tracking, or send a track back out to it after tracking. Joe Meek, Focusrite Trakmaster, etc.
My answer is definitely.......both.
 
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