What's Missing in "the chain"

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laj35

laj35

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OK so I'm coming closer and closer to having the whole studio set up to record audio and/or sequence some MIDI. I'm able to send/recieve midi data to/from the Triton to Cubase through my Audiophile 2496's interface and record events, play 'em back just fine and all that but my problem comes when I try to incorporate in the A Station as well. Normally I'll just send a line from the Triton's OUT into the Audiophile's IN, and a line into the Triton from the Audiophile's OUT. The thing is I use the Triton to control the A Station and so, in an attempt to be able to complete the MIDI chain, I send a line from the Tritons OUT into the Astation's THRU, from the AStations OUT to the Audiophile's IN, and from the Audiophile's OUT into the Astation's IN, thinking that this would actually allow me to record MIDI data from both sound modules and play 'em back too. I don't have a MIDI (multi) interface, so I guess that's probably what it's gonna take to be able to do this, I'm not sure. Sorry if this is (again?!?) a stupid question, I'm trying.


Any thoughts/ideas are greatly appreciated, thanks guys.




Laj
 
This is a thought:
Midi out of triton to midi in of A station thru.
Midi out of A station to Audiophile in. Audiophile out to midi in of triton thru.
Setup triton and A station to a specific channel to use for playback data.
If this does'nt work then yes you may need a multi-interface.
 
Will give it a go when I get home, thanks stealth. I'm thinking that I'm gonna have to go and get an interface. I only have the Triton and (soon!) an Evolution MK249C midi controller for controlling the A station. I use a couple soft syths and rarely use a couple midi syncable hardware devices (ex: Korg Electribe ES-1), think this will provide sufficient in/outs for my setup: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...search/g=home/s=platinum/detail/base_id/44337
Why/why not?

Again thanks stealth, will try and many thanks for any new/other ideas,


Laj
 
I'm either misreading or both of you are missing the function of the THRU port.

The THRU port is an OUT port. The only difference is it will pass THRU any midi that was sent IN to that unit. The OUT port only sends midi data generated by that piece only. The OUT is only used on controllers, midi interfaces, sequencers and possibly a drum machine if you want to use the internal patterns.

There are exceptions to this and some synths have a little more flexibility in combining OUT/THRU functionality. They usually do that on drum machines so they can skimp on midi ports.

But in general- If you want a module to receive MIDI it has to come IN to the module. If you want that module to pass on midi data to another module you would use the MIDI THRU as the 'out'.

So for you-

Triton OUT- Audiophile IN
Triton IN - Audiophile OUT
Triton THRU - Novation

This way Sonar plays the novation by passing the midi OUT of the audiophile, IN the TRITON, THRU the Triton and IN to the novation.

Sonar will receive all the midi from the Triton ONLY. If you want 2 controllers you will need a 2x2 midi interface.
 
Aaahhhh, I guess my ignorance shines through once again. Makes perfect sense (I think) Tex. Let me make sure I understand; so I'd go from the Triton's THRU to the Novation's IN (hence controlling the Novation's sounds) and basically just hook up the Triton like I would normally to the PC, right? OK so let's say I want to add a Korg Electribe ES-1 or the trusty old Roland TR505 to the chain, theoretically I'd then just have to go from the Novation's THRU to the ES-1's IN, then from the ES-1's THRU to the TR505's IN, and so on right? The Triton would then controll these modules as well correct? Would I have to set up anything (like enabling some sort of "MIDI Thru" function) other than setting the channels?

Sorry I'm comin with all kinds of questions, it feels like I'm really close to coming to a fairly comprehensive understanding of MIDI in general and I just want to get there and be all hooked up and ready to go just by powering up. In any event thanks alot for any ideas/help.



Laj
 
You got it- the thing to realize here is that your controller is only DIRECTLY communicating with the comp midi interface. Sonar is going to loop the midi signal back thru the controller and on to the other modules. How you set up the receive channel on the modules will determine what they play.

This type of long signal chain will create some latency though and you want to be carefull. It may become noticable if you have fast attack sounds at the end of the midi chain. The way I have recomended you set it up will give you the least amount of recording latency but there may be some audible playback latency on the other modules. You can shift those tracks up a few milliseconds during playback if it is noticable.

That is why a multi port midi interface is preferred so that the midi signal doesnt have to pass thru so many devices before it gets to the right module.
 
I understand pretty much perfectly, thanks Tex. In regards to setting up the recieve channels, I can get everything synced up except the Roland TR-505, anybody out there know how this is done? Could it be that I have to set the A Station to MIDI Thru, or something? Or maybe where to find the manual? In any event thanks for all the help up till now, and any further thoughts.




Laj
 
You didnt mention the TR505 before. Will it not receive any midi or are you trying to sync up the internal patterns with Sonar?

It should playback MIDI if you continue the chain using the THRU on the A station to the IN on the TR. I personally would use it as a sound module and not use the internal patterns. It saves you one less headache and Sonar is probably better for editing patterns.

If that is what you are doing and it is still not working you might want to look at the global settings on the Astation to make sure the THRU is configured properly. Also make sure the TR is set to receive on its own channel.

Midi configs are very simple when you look at an individual component but they do get complicated with multiple synths. Just be very systematic when routing the cables and assigning the midi channels and you should be okay.
 
Ah, yes oh wise Tex, your continuous help is ever so appreciated, and I am making definite progress. The TR-505 is definitely going to be used as just a sound module, and sparingly at that. I definitely will just be using external sequences for it. The issue I'm having now is getting it so the A Station and the TR-505 don't play at the same time (the same sequence data that is), I think it's just a matter of getting the AStation to SEND data on the same Chnl as the TR-505 is on, I'm gonna mess around with it, should be able to figure it out. Just for the sake of reference, I am using Cubase not Sonar, not that that really has any bearing (I don't think anyways), but just so ya know. As of right now I've been just using the Triton's sequencer and setting up RPPR's and kinda jamming, or whatever. It's really fun and setting that up is only going to help when it comes time to record in Cubase. In any event, thanks again for all the help Tex, it's very much appreciated.





Laj
 
Remember though the only units that will actually send data are the Triton and Cubase. So the Astation should simply be passing on the data. Sounds like they are both receiving on the same channels. You may have one of them set up for OMNI which will receive on all channels. Set them for MULTI so they only receive whatever channels the patches are programmed to receive.

I believe those are the general midi terms for the global settings. I havent messed with any complicated rigs in a few years. The good news is once you get them working it should be pretty easy from there on out.

With that many modules you are gonna run out of midi channels pretty soon. Its nice to have extra channels for patch, volume, and other control data. I liked having about 8-16ch per module so that you can dont have to worry about skimping on control ability.

If you want all the modules to be able to send data for patch librarians and stuff you will need to have their midi outs going into the computer and that will require a multi port interface.
 
Yeah a multi-interface is pretty high up on the shoping que list, along side so many glorious pieces of gear I so lust over.




Laj
 
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