What to do about room noise, hiss, whatever?

[Vigilante]

Hey fellas, very simple recording problem I need some ideas, tips on.

Here is the deal, I've got a decent condenser mic and I'm recording through a Tascam US-122 to my laptop. I recorded a person singing and playing guitar. The condenser was pointed in the general direction of his mouth, and I had the guitar pickup going into the Tascam as well to channel 2. I'm sure the condenser picked up the guitar quite a bit as well. Although his guitar sound hole was plugged, muted.

The recording sounded great as it pertains to the quality of voice and instrument, I recorded with Cubase LE.
Now then, when I saved the file as WAV and played it back through my home stereo through my laptop's 1/8" headphone jack to my stereo's aux input, I noticed two things:

1- The recording must have been fairly quiet. When the laptop's output was max'd, I had my stereo at volume 23 I think. When I play a loud movie I have it at maybe 14. So for some reason the recording is really quiet, or it has to do with how I'm going about playback, not sure.

2- Because the volume is pumped up to hear it, you also hear a thundrous amout of background noise, I don't know what to call it, a dead air recording, hiss, whatever. I'm sure this is because I don't have a recording booth and the condeser is picking up air noise or whatever.

So what can I do, or check, to prevent these two problems? And can I run the recording through some kind of filter to remove the background hiss? Or is the hiss just because I'm outputting through powered headphone jack instead of line level? I don't know. Can I up the volume to something normal with losing quality? How do I even know what a normal volume IS in the first place to raise a recording to? Does the hiss have to do with compression/recording quality of the WAV? I think it was sampling at the defaults of Cubase which I thought I saw was 44,000hz? What should I record at? How do I control the recorded volume without clipping?

Sorry for all the questions, believe me, I've searched for tutorials on Cubase, and I just don't get it. I can't even get cubase to play within the program, I have to export to wav to hear anything. And if I record a 2nd track, it only ever exports the top track. So I cannot figure out Cubase.
So please just give whatever pointers/tips you can to help me get started.

You guys helped me buy this stuff, so don't leave me when I'm trying to figure out how to use it! lol.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[gecko zzed]

The noise can come from a number of sources, and you need to start working through the possible causes.

1 condensors are sensitive, and will pick up any stray noise around the place, including computer fans, clocks ticking and so on. How far away from the mike was your singer? Try to get close (maybe a foot or so from the mouth) to get a good strong signal from the vocal (in comparison with the background noise). A quiet singer is not going to be that helpful. Another option is to place the microphone as far away from noise-making sources as possible.

2 check the microphone gain. If it is way up high (which it could be if the singer is too far away or is very quiet), it will have a tendency to pick up even more noise. Additionally, on cheaper desks, the pre-amps can get very hissy when turned up. See what happens if you have no mike plugged in and play with the gain. Is the noise still there? If so, try working with a lower gain.

3 Try recording some pre-recorded material (say, by plugging a CD or MP3 player into the system and recording that. Are levels still too low? Is the noise still there? You may need to look at the laptop soundcard settings.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'd also add that it's common for raw recordings to be of lower volume than commercial recordings you'll be used to listening to. There are tools in Cubase and all editors as well as additional "plug-in" tools that can be added that allow you to refine your raw recordings to make them sound better in any number of ways.

In your case I'd definitely start with gekko's advice and minimize noise in the recording itself by keeping room noise to a minimum and setting mic preamp and recording levels optimal.

Additional sources of room noise can include active HVAC vents or noise from nearby appliances like refrigerators. Record in a quiet room (if possible, one with a decent size bookcase and/or heavy drapes to help natural deadening of the sound. If the drapes are open, close them to block the windows which would otherwise reflect a lot of sound (not to mention the drapes will help isolate from the outside). If possible, set the thermostat for the room to keep any forced-air vents or radiators silent while recoding. Barring that, shut them during the recording process as well.

Your laptop probably does not generate anywhere near the noise of a typical desktop, but it's still a good idea to distance it as far away from your recording source as possible, definitely to the rear of your condensor. If you have long enough cables, it wouldn't hurt to actually place the computer in an adjoining room (though that is less critical with the laptop.)

When recording with the condensor, you probably need the phantom power from the Tascam box. If so, make sure you have phantom power turned on.

Try to set your "gain staging" (your input recording levels at each stage in your recording chain) so that the level knobs on the Tascam are somewhere in the middle (~30% - 70% volume, give or take), and not just barely turned up or turned all the way to miximum. You want the mic preamps sending enough good signal to your computer, but without generating a lot of its own noise. Then set the recoring input controls in Cubase accordingly to keep your peak signals for each track somewhere of course below 0dBFS (peaking/clipping) but - for your situation - probably peaking no lower than -8dBFS or so. -3 to -6dBFS peaks on your meters will probably be near the sweet spot somewhere, though a coulple of dB either way shouldn't make a huge difference.

Now, your resulting stereo mix from these tracks will probably still be a lower volume that you desire and could easily still have unwanted room noise. The first thing to do is increase the volume of the mixdown. The down and dirty (and distasteful to many) way to do this is to use the "normalize" function in your editor. This is essentially just a volume control that raises the loudest peak in your recording to 0dB and increases the volume of everything else proportionally. The bad news is that with many recordings, normalization alone just does not provide enough volume. In those cases you need to use compression and/or limiting to squeeze your peaks down first before you boost the volume so you can squeeze more volume out of your recording.

Finally, if after you have the volume worked out you still have too much room noise, you'd probably be best off using a noise reduction plugin from Steinberg, Sonic Foundry/Sony or Waves to get rid of what's left. If you don't have access to such a plugin or can't afford one, you could try using an "expander" tool (basically just the opposite of a compressor) to knock the noise level down to manageable levels.

HTH,

G.

 

[Gilliland]

Keep in mind that it is quite possible that the noise is being added during playback rather than during recording. I don't know anything about your signal path, so I can't help much with specifics. I don't use a laptop (well, except to do internet stuff), I don't use Cubase, and I have no idea what a Tascam 122 is.

But in general:

1) Reduce as much noise in the room as possible before recording.

2) Place your mic so that it captures a fairly loud signal from the singer.

3) Make sure that your signal paths (both recording and playback) make sense, and that the gain staging is reasonable. Without knowing your equipment, I can't help much with that. It sounds to be like you probably need to spend some time reading about recording fundamentals.

4) There are plug-ins that can remove noise from a recording, but they should probably be used only as a last resort.

Now that I look back at Glen's post, I think I just told you the same thing that he did. <g>

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I don't know anything about your signal path, so I can't help much with specifics. I don't use a laptop (well, except to do internet stuff), I don't use Cubase, and I have no idea what a Tascam 122 is.

Now that I look back at Glen's post, I think I just told you the same thing that he did. <g>

Well, Gilliland, if it makes you feel any better...

I do regularly use a laptop for mobile work, I do use Cubase semi-regularly and I have used a Tascam 122 on a few occasions. And yes you said the same thing I did.

Nice work.

G.

 

[thediscoking]

The forgotten music-making stage...

One more thing to add... your recordings are always going to be softer than the CDs that you buy in stores.

*** The solution (to that problem) lies behind curtain number two.... (drumroll) ***

Mastering, mastering, mastering

 

[Vigilante]

Excellent advice guys. Thanks

As per the particular recording I'm talking about, I can't record this same thing again, so in that respect, I need to try the noise filters as well as normalizing or whatever, not sure how to do Cubase for that but I'll mudge through the help files.

As per my original recording, it was smack in the middle of my living room, no hvac. Not near any computers except my little laptop which is pretty much silent. Mic was maybe 3 or 4 feet from laptop.

But I think all the noise was coming during recording because:

1- The mic was actually about 2 feet from his mouth! This was just due to the quick circumstances at the time, late at night, he was sitting down with the guitar (so head pointing down) and that is just where I stuck the mic. So to fix this, I'll be sure to get the mic as close as possible, and then be able to turn the gain down a notch.

2- The mic gain. Phantom IS on, the mic requires it. And the gain nob on the Tascam was maybe 70%. I basically just had him sing his loudest parts, and turned it down a little past clipping point. I'm sure I can turn it down even farther if the mic is closer.

3- As for playback path, I'm sure that enhanced the background noise, as I said I had to crank the volume up a good deal to hear it, and I was passing the signal over 1/8" jacks from laptop headphone out to stereo aux input. So my laptops amp probably added some noise. Would line level output to stereo be worlds better?

4- I'll keep in mind the environment. The only glass is the back arcadia door, with verticle blinds closed. But there is bookcase near and couches etc.. it is carpeted.

If I might add, since I can't seem to find any decent help on using Cubase, it's confusing as all get out, what should I use for recording? I want a simplistic approach. Just record it, apply a filter or two, increase volume, have multiple tracks. Done.
What should I use to "master" it?

I might add, about Cubase, I can't figure out how the dumb thing works. If I record two tracks, it never outputs anything but the top track only. I can't playback anything in the program, no matter what I set the output settings to. So I can't hear anything I do unless I'm working on one track only, and then export it and listen. It's really annoying.

I'll take everything you've all said to heart, I'll be back here again if I have further comments. Really good info.

 

[travelin travis]

in cubase, you are recording using separate tracks? it sounds like you are re-recording to the same track. if you need any help just let me know. i've been using cubase for a good bit and know my way around it pretty well.

if you decide that you don't like cubase, traktion is very user friendly and i never even had to look at the manual during the time that i played around in it.

 

[Vigilante]

This may not be the best place to start talking about Cubase, but since you're here, I could definitely like to sort out these two issues.

Basically, I have my Tascam US-122 plugged in to USB, which basically adds a "sound card" to Windows. This soundcard is what cubase is set to record from, and it does just fine.

Lets say I open cubase, I start a 24-track Audio Recorder. So up pops up my project with tracks Audio 01 through Audio 24 down the line.
When I hit record, I get Audio 01. Good. Now I click on track two and record, I can clearly see the audio line there under track 1. The problem is, if I were to go to File-export mixdown and save it, I would only get track 1. So I think I'm missing something to tell cubase to save more then one track or whatever. And what is stranger is, if I delete track 1, nothing will export.
So what tiny little incomprehensible tick button do I click to link the tracks together for export and playback?

Second problem is that I can't hear anything FROM cubase to begin with. If I record my track, then press play, I get nothing. I can't hear anything. I HAVE to export to WAV and play it to hear it. I've looked through every setting and file menu, I've even searched the help files. It just won't play back through my sound card so I can hear it. I don't understand that. So how do I set what cubase uses for you to hear stuff WITHIN the program? Or where do I go?

I would love a mentor in that program

---------------

PS, about this thread topic. I tried using the noise filter in Audacity to remove the noise, it removed noise but instead replaced it with some funky alien sounds. Audacity's normalize function did well on the volume though. I'd classify the recording as acoustic soft rock. The singer has a fairly quiet voice. Guess I'll just have to watch my recording next time.

 

[travelin travis]

Setup a project: Seeing that you're using that tascam interface, you probably don't need 24 tracks. There's no need to have 24 tracks hogging up your screen space if you are'nt using them. To setup a new project, open Cubase, select "empty", select a project folder or create a new folder, right click in the track area and select "add audio track". Add as many as you intend to use. You can add more tracks at any time.

Can't hear playback in Cubase: Did you turn off input monitoring for the track? On each track, there is a little speaker icon for turning on/off input monitoring. If it's on, you will hear whatever is connected to the track's input (mic, guitar, etc.). If it is off, you will hear the recorded material on that track. Basically, you want input monitoring off during playback and on during recording.

Mixdown: If input monitoring is on for a track and you do a mixdown, that track will be muted during mixdown. If you can't hear the track during playback, you won't hear it during mixdown either.

If you need help with Cubase, post in the Cubase area. I watch it pretty regularly. Or, you can pm me. Good luck.

 

[Vigilante]

Awesome dude, I'm sure that explains it. Although it doesn't explain why it still exports the first track. I'll be able to try that tomorrow.

I just built a machine to do my recording on, a music machine. And I'm loading the software but don't have the sleve to my Cubase CD, and it's asking for the serial number.
I already have the same cubase on my laptop when I originally loaded it, so is there a way to get my serial from the laptop so I can load it on the music machine?
I've looked high and low for the sleve but I can't find it. I need my serial!