What to do about my client, Part II

  • Thread starter Thread starter chessrock
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If this guy has good money and can potentially bring in more buisness to your studio. By all means dont be the one to tell him his music ability sucks.

You should learn to not be objective and just record whatever he does. If you can fix it with such things as autotune, aureal exciter,and a bit of chourus. More power to you.

Lots of people these days have hit records with no singing ability at all.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
If you can fix it with such things as autotune, aureal exciter,and a bit of chourus. More power to you.

Lots of people these days have hit records with no singing ability at all.
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In certain situations, I've also found those to be good fixes. Especially if the singer projects well, has a lot of flair, but just sings a little out of tune or needs help standing out in a mix.

In this situation, however, much of the problem lies in the melodies themselves, as he could also use some songwriting help. Plus he can't sing. Period.

You could take the vocals out completely, and they'd actually be very good, catchy, sometimes soothing instrumental pieces. My girlfriend remarked to me: "Wow, that's some good music. I really like it untill that voice comes in and starts groaning and whaling all that stuff. What is that?"

Anyway, I think I solved the problem. I wrote him back, and it went something like this:

"I have gotten some great results with other singers in the past. I do, however, agree with you that I somehow have been unable to capture the magic I am sure your voice possesses with my current setup an methods. I truly believe that what works well with one voice might not always be the best for all. Maybe another studio will have just the right setup that works well with your particular voice and your unique style.

I would like to continue working with you on the music, as we have gotten some great results so far. After that is done, I can give you the tracks or full mixdowns for you to take to another studio and finish the vocal work there. It's actually very common. Lots of the big name artist track in several different studios for a lot of the same reasons."
 
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Just give him the instrumental tape and tell him to practice for a few months. Is he in some great hurry? Tell him to come back when he's ready.
 
I agree with Mr. Teeth. There's nothing funnier than hearing that English guy say "You're positively the worst singer in America!"

Seriously though, you're on the right track. He'll never thank you for the truth even if it helps him, and it won't help you in any case. Not your job to teach 'em. I've heard some singers who seemed pretty hopeless initially put in the work and study to actually become bearable and even passable to my surprise. This fellow could be one of those, but right now all he is is your problem.
-kent
 
You can always tell him "it's a microphone...not a magic wand" There are so many "singers" I've worked with that I wanted to say that to.
 
You have a Catch 22 - as the engineer/producer/studio owner you have different responsibilities.

The engineer should not draw opinions on the talent - but simply record the voice as accurately as possible and add whatever processing the producer wants.

The producer should get the best perfomance from a talent - and that may require some tackful but honest discussion regarding the talent's skills (or lack thereof). If a producer does not think the talent has talent - the producer should not accept the project.

The problem is, the studio owner should not turn away paying customers no matter what the level of talent may be.

If I were in your position (and I have been), I would as the producer try to convince the talent that although he does not have a strong voice in the traditional norm, he does have guitar talent which we should focus on.

I would try to get all the instrumental tracks completed (the studio owner keeps the business). I would try to work with the vocals as best as possible (suggesting spoken approach, whatever), which is the producers job. (perhaps use Hendrix, Dylan, Lou Reed, etc. as examples).

If when all is said and done he still feels the weak vocals are your fault (the engineer), then you can politely explain that your studio equipment does not include the required exciters, autotune and other "pro-level" equipment that could give him what he needs.

Hopefully, you kept most of the project in your studio, provided the proper level of support (as the producer) and salvaged your reputation as an engineer.

I would never insult a client, no matter how bad they may sound - our business is all about work of mouth and repeat customers.
 
great thread...wow..

well, i've been in a similar position when auditioning people..they show a glimmer of hope in one area and the rest is crap.

of course, in this situation we just say "no, thank you'..

but we're not getting paid.

that's the key.

I'm not an engineer, so i am guessing, but do you guys think about "artistic" integrity? just curious...i like what you told him chessrock..

as an artist, i wouldn't go to a studio that put out crap....but i would go to one that made great recordings/mixes of bad talent...

if the talent is bad or just passible, and the mixes are excellent, then it's a done deal...the whole "move and get a different name" thing would really suck from a business standpoint.

if business is slow then what do you do?

well, i think if i owned a studio, and needed the money bad enough, then i would record the guy as is..and get a friend to drop by who's loud and obnoxious to tell him his vocals need work. tell him if it doesn't sound at least "good" when recorded dry, then it'll never be up to par...

then if he gets all mad, throw the friend out (you can work this all out earlier lol)....

i've been blessed enough to know when I suck lol...I never think anything is good enough though...:D

what his style of music BTW?
 
I really feel bad for this guy. I mean, his friends didn't even have the heart to tell him that his singing was awful. I never want to have friends like that.
 
i used that "friend trick" once on a good friend of mine who thought he could drum..omg!! he was horrible!! so i had another buddy drop by and tell him he sucked...made the friend who was drumming realize that he did need some practice...worked like a charm!!
 
I know, I'm my own worst critic when it comes to my vocals, but they do suck. If only I could find a singer who was great and would absolutely bend to my will and vision, and be available when I am at 2 AM... until then I guess I'm stuck with myself. At least I know I can't blame my gear or mixing skills...
 
I have a friend just like this. He's so crap but he thinks he's the greatest thing since Nirvana. I can admit my singing sucks but he takes it to a whole other level. He cant play guitar very well. He has a huge problem with keepingin time so i thought id record him with a click track and he couldnt keep in time with that. His songs suck. Infact his favourite song at the moment is one that is exactly a copy of mine (its an old song and even i dont like it) and he's just put a shitty solo over the top of it.
I was trying to organise a band practice with him on bass and he told me that he wanted to do 2 of his songs. For our fist practice when we obviously have other, fully developed songs we are going to do first. Im not the only one that sees this, the other guitarist/sing/songwriter completely agrees with me and so do others that had heard him. The only thing is he thinks becuase Oasis were arrigant when they got started that if he is he'll make it big. There's only one difference OASIS HAD TALENT!! My god this guy shits me. If i get a chance i'll post a couple of his songs.
 
The future

The thought that is always in my mind in any situation like this; if I let this session go out, knowing it sucked, and there was nothing I could do to make the guy (band, etc) sound any better, how will this product affect my reputation for the kind of product I put out? We've all seen it; an inexperienced band that has never done recording, and your trying to get the guitarist to understand (without insult) that his tone sucks, and his tone will not sit in the mix correctly. Or, trying to get the drummer to understand that he needs to close up the hi hats instead of keeping them open, that recording is completely different than playing live.

I once had this happen with a band. I did a four song demo for them, so they could book some gigs, for a measely $300. Same situation, drummer ripping through with open hi hats. They didn't like their mixes. So I provided them with remixes, a couple of songs I did up to five mixes on. I easily invested 12 hrs per day for a solid week, editing, mixing, and mastering. Would you believe, after all these remixes, they said they were going to use the first mixes which they had originally disapproved. And they wanted me to refund them $150, and said they felt like the mixes sounded like I just didn't spend any time on the project. The funny thing is, I played these mixes for a couple of fairly well known engineers. Their responses were, how much did these guys pay you? Answer: $300. Their immediate remark-MY GOD, what do these guys want, a $3000 production for $300; I've seen people spend 4 x $300, and didn't come out with a product that sounds half this good-tell these guys to go 'F" themselves!

And when the client leaves unhappy, it gets blamed on you the engineer. Even though you did everything you could for an act that just never was going to sound good, even if Eddie Kramer recorded & mixed them. But, once they have left with their product, and the blame is thrown back to you (& you know it will be), it's too late. So, did this project possibly cost me future work from other clients, which have now heard you do shitty work?

Stories like this is why engineers/producers I know (myself included) will not even work with beginning bands doing demos and such. Unless the cats are just scary good, have their poo poo together, or are ASCAP songwriters, or already know what you're talking about when you mention a word like intonation (uh what's that), or dynamics, or mic technique. Know what I'm saying?

#1 Always at least get a deposit up front (at least 1/2 of the total).

I'm not saying cut the cord on this guy, but if you do go on with him, you owe it to the session to at least tactfully try to correct the vocal problem with him. Like the guy said earlier, this person may learn more from this one session than he's learned in years. He may always remember the help you gave him, and that's what it's all about right-helpin one another to be the best we can be? Then again, he might wanna kick your ass-HA HA.

Good LUCK-I feel your pain :)
 
Stratomaster said:
. If he's unhappy with his headphone mix or vocal sound he needs to speak up and tell you WHILE YOUR TRACKING not after his friends point it out to him and he decides to email you after the fact.
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i hate it when they do that. then moan about it whenever they hear their voice!
 
Keith Henry, I know what you're talking about. Maybe not really the same, but I once bumped into guy who wanted me to 'master' some jams he made with his band on a plain cassette! But the guy gave me a few jobs earlier, so because I thought I owed him a little and the job wouldn't be that hard to do I acccepted. He gave me a cassette tape with a few songs.

I wasn't very long into recording/mixing then and also I thought the job wouldn't take me much time, i was idiot enough to except $20 (yeah laugh at me, I'm a loser:)). So, just record that damned cassette analog on my comp, adjust the levels in CEP, add a little EQ and compression on the mix and burn it onto CD?

But what a noisy jam! There were tons of little mistakes, I couldn't even bare to just leave it that way. I cutted and pasted the stuff very precise, but I had some freedom in the song structure because it allready were long jams.

At the end I spend 2 whole fucking days just to get a bit of a product I wouldn't be ashamed to give back. He was happy with two songs I did, not with the third but I was so tired by then I didn't wanted to work further on that. Anyway, the guy was so enthousiastic on what I did with just a stupid cassette that het was constantly talking about he was going to say to everybody 'I was his producer'. I tried to explain him, I did the mastering, I don't owe any producer credits'. I didn't wanted that stuff to put the bit reputation I have down. But he kept telling everybody how I 'produced' his record.

Now I know better: when I feel I'm waisting to much time on such a project: I refuse it before I even start or I ask a desent price, so that at least it will help me a bit financially.
 
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