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batchmister1
New member
what synths made r&b basses in the 1980s?
altitude909
Best Advice Ever: RTFM
My guess you would hear a lot of DX
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brzilian
New member
My first issue of Keyboard Magazine was the Feb. 1988 issue with David Frank on the cover.
He was the guy behind all those intricate bass lines you would hear on Chaka Khan and Whitney Houston CD's in the 80's. He was also half of "The System",
He talked about using primarily Oberheims for bass sounds.
He was the guy behind all those intricate bass lines you would hear on Chaka Khan and Whitney Houston CD's in the 80's. He was also half of "The System",
He talked about using primarily Oberheims for bass sounds.
anppilot
Never Act Like U Know All
Yes these fellas are right. Mostly DX-7 basses. Let me give you a quick tid-bit of info on FM (dx-7) basses.
I feel that the bass on ANY fm synth is better than most basses today. Esp for that Smooooooooth - deep, sexy woofer thumpin r&b bass.
Heres why.
A sine wave. Pure and simple. A sime wave.
Can we say 808? A glorified sine wave.
And it doesnt have to be a dx-7 6 operator synth. I promise you this:
BUY A YAMAHA FB-01. Theyre like 35-50 bucks used, get s software editor, and you CAN make some bad-azz basses with a unit that is the price os a few value-meals at a fast food place!
I own a Yamaha FB-01, TX81Z(rack dx-21) and TX802(rack DX-7). ALL are worth compents in RB whether basses or EP's. Nothing is better, and I'll stand firm on that one.
Cheers
I feel that the bass on ANY fm synth is better than most basses today. Esp for that Smooooooooth - deep, sexy woofer thumpin r&b bass.
Heres why.
A sine wave. Pure and simple. A sime wave.
Can we say 808? A glorified sine wave.
And it doesnt have to be a dx-7 6 operator synth. I promise you this:
BUY A YAMAHA FB-01. Theyre like 35-50 bucks used, get s software editor, and you CAN make some bad-azz basses with a unit that is the price os a few value-meals at a fast food place!
I own a Yamaha FB-01, TX81Z(rack dx-21) and TX802(rack DX-7). ALL are worth compents in RB whether basses or EP's. Nothing is better, and I'll stand firm on that one.
Cheers
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lumbago
New member
Recall that R&B as it is known today wasn't really around back in the 1980's - unless you listened to Black Soul artists.
OK - DX-7's had filters which were not that good for bass. Which is why Yamaha later got US based engineers to work over the DX7-MK11.
80's Bass -
Korg Poly-61 in unison mode.
Roland SH-101
Arp Odyssey
Minimoog
Sequential Circuits Pro 1
Oberheim OB-XA
Roland Jupiter 8
Korg DW-8000
Korg M1
Roland MKS-20 Piano Module (especially the Rhodes patch).
Kawai K3
Roland SC-55 Sound Canvas
Roland Alpha Juno
Roland Juno 106
Roland SH-2
OK - so now you know what Michael Jackson, Madonna, Pet Shop Boys, Al Jarreau, Michael Boddicker, Pat Leonard, Trevor Horn, Geoff Downes, Eurythmics used.
There once was a time when TR-808 and SH-101 were considered too thin by many keys players (along with the DX7) because the filters weren't that great - it was only with the advent of digital recordings that A/D converters added some magic to these sounds. To record it wasn't so much of an issue, but live - especially against a brass section - the DX7 used to disappear in the mix.
OK - DX-7's had filters which were not that good for bass. Which is why Yamaha later got US based engineers to work over the DX7-MK11.
80's Bass -
Korg Poly-61 in unison mode.
Roland SH-101
Arp Odyssey
Minimoog
Sequential Circuits Pro 1
Oberheim OB-XA
Roland Jupiter 8
Korg DW-8000
Korg M1
Roland MKS-20 Piano Module (especially the Rhodes patch).
Kawai K3
Roland SC-55 Sound Canvas
Roland Alpha Juno
Roland Juno 106
Roland SH-2
OK - so now you know what Michael Jackson, Madonna, Pet Shop Boys, Al Jarreau, Michael Boddicker, Pat Leonard, Trevor Horn, Geoff Downes, Eurythmics used.
There once was a time when TR-808 and SH-101 were considered too thin by many keys players (along with the DX7) because the filters weren't that great - it was only with the advent of digital recordings that A/D converters added some magic to these sounds. To record it wasn't so much of an issue, but live - especially against a brass section - the DX7 used to disappear in the mix.
altitude909
Best Advice Ever: RTFM
TR-808 thin? Its a drum machine, and the kick is anything but thin. DX-7 does not have filters
anppilot
Never Act Like U Know All
Maybe I'm an idiot, who knows, but listen Nor251, I've been producing r&b since 1992. I produce hiphop, techno, & house also. I've used alot of stuff.
I had a similarity in production style to Babyface. While I love is production techniques/style, I have to say I don't like the bass in his mixes. Esp on the 'For the cool in you" album.
I love everything else in the mix. Main reason: ROLAND BABY ALL THE WAY!. Can we say te JV series?
HOWEVER! I feel that if they used a dx7(tx802) or dx11(tx81z) for BASS ONLY, God, I feel they would have "boomed"
But each producer has their own "style" and that is mine. Roland JV series & Fantom, Korg m1 & Triton for keys-synth-strings-pads, etc, Ensoniq MR-RACK/ASRX & Gigastudio Sampler for my drums & Yamaha fb-01, tx81z & tx802 for my bass, DX style EP's (BEST EVER)
Thats how I do it 90% of the time.
Peace
I had a similarity in production style to Babyface. While I love is production techniques/style, I have to say I don't like the bass in his mixes. Esp on the 'For the cool in you" album.
I love everything else in the mix. Main reason: ROLAND BABY ALL THE WAY!. Can we say te JV series?
HOWEVER! I feel that if they used a dx7(tx802) or dx11(tx81z) for BASS ONLY, God, I feel they would have "boomed"
But each producer has their own "style" and that is mine. Roland JV series & Fantom, Korg m1 & Triton for keys-synth-strings-pads, etc, Ensoniq MR-RACK/ASRX & Gigastudio Sampler for my drums & Yamaha fb-01, tx81z & tx802 for my bass, DX style EP's (BEST EVER)
Thats how I do it 90% of the time.
Peace
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lumbago
New member
Altitude,
You say "DX-7 does not have filters" - but in fact, it effectively does in the D/A stage. In any case, you probably never tried gigging one with a big band. Too thin= the brass always drowned it out. I tried two DX-7s - and wrote patches to use 12 operators. Still too thin.
Lovely instrument in the studio. Not so good live for fatness.
I agree the TR-808 is also a good box. But compared to the Linn and the Oberheim DMX and DX and Drumulator and other drum machines of its day, it was fairly limited - in a unique way.
You say "DX-7 does not have filters" - but in fact, it effectively does in the D/A stage. In any case, you probably never tried gigging one with a big band. Too thin= the brass always drowned it out. I tried two DX-7s - and wrote patches to use 12 operators. Still too thin.
Lovely instrument in the studio. Not so good live for fatness.
I agree the TR-808 is also a good box. But compared to the Linn and the Oberheim DMX and DX and Drumulator and other drum machines of its day, it was fairly limited - in a unique way.
altitude909
Best Advice Ever: RTFM
Bollocks. You cant do that. There are no algorithms that allow 12 ops to be used across 2 synths. I have owned a TG77, DX7 MK1, DX7 Mk2, TX81z (the 4 op) so I know my FM synths. Getting lost in a mix in a big band? Maybe, but the 4 op DX bass was probably the most common bass sound in 80's and 90's house music and it is FAR from thin.
Um, what is that supposed to mean exactly? The DX and most of the earlier yamaha FM Synths had no audio filters. Please enlighten us to what form of filter the DX 7 uses?
DMX. DX, and Drumulator are all 12 bit sample based drum machines, saying those are less limited than a 808 which is a pure analog machine with tweakable sounds is absurd. 90% of ALL hip hop uses an 808 kick, I suppose thats too thin too
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SuperJX
Huh?
You guys forgot the PPG Wave, which was very commonly used by Trevor Horn (FGTH "Relax" for example) and a bunch of other signature '80s dance tunes.
Oberheim OB-8 and DMX were used by Jam and Lewis, along with minimoog bass. They later picked up the Emu SP-12 as their main drum machine. I think that these, along with the micromoog, were pretty commonly used in R&B also.
David Frank also used the minimoog a lot, often building songs from the bassline upward. (He wrote/co-wrote a couple of Christina Aguilera's recent hits, btw.)
The DX-7 didn't have filters. It also had a pretty limited D/A converter (8 or 12 bit, if I recall correctly) that didn't have the kind of headroom you'd expect today, so was actually a bit light on the bass frequency transients. Some of the better funded key players of the '80s would use a TX-816 rack with four or even all eight modules stacked on a single patch (or subtle variants) to give you a thicker sound.
One of my favorite synths for basslines was the Roland JX-10 <ahem> that let you stack two patches, each in a unison mode, for a 24 oscillator mono line. Could be pretty fat
This was also the start of MIDI, so layering was becoming more common. Lots of DX-7 teamed with something analog.
Fun subject-- brings back memories...
Oberheim OB-8 and DMX were used by Jam and Lewis, along with minimoog bass. They later picked up the Emu SP-12 as their main drum machine. I think that these, along with the micromoog, were pretty commonly used in R&B also.
David Frank also used the minimoog a lot, often building songs from the bassline upward. (He wrote/co-wrote a couple of Christina Aguilera's recent hits, btw.)
The DX-7 didn't have filters. It also had a pretty limited D/A converter (8 or 12 bit, if I recall correctly) that didn't have the kind of headroom you'd expect today, so was actually a bit light on the bass frequency transients. Some of the better funded key players of the '80s would use a TX-816 rack with four or even all eight modules stacked on a single patch (or subtle variants) to give you a thicker sound.
One of my favorite synths for basslines was the Roland JX-10 <ahem> that let you stack two patches, each in a unison mode, for a 24 oscillator mono line. Could be pretty fat
This was also the start of MIDI, so layering was becoming more common. Lots of DX-7 teamed with something analog.
Fun subject-- brings back memories...
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pwm
New member
Roland Juno-60 was huge on many electro tracks: Section 25 used it all over 'From The Hip'. 
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
The same goes for the Casio CZ series. Realtime digital filters were prohibitively costly in the early 80s. Casio skirted the issue by using waveform samples with fixed resonant peaks. When the HT series came out, they used analog filters.
Toddskins
Member
Though this thread got started in 2007, and the question was specific to which synths were primarily used for basses in the 80's, it's an okay question as far as trivia goes.
But if you think that any of those sounds cannot be reproduced on today's equipment, you'd be sadly mistaken.
There's not a sound on a recording that I cannot emulate with either my Kurzweil K2500XS or my Novation Supernova II.
You just gotta dig into sounds, and know how to tweak them.
I've spent plenty of time reproducing a lot of songs from the 80's, including the aforementioned groups' hit songs. People are impressed that they cannot tell the difference from the actual song from what I created.
The point is not that I am something, but that if you have an aptitude for programming, you can get what you want.
Take note, though, that I mentioned my Kurzweil, which is a very technical sample playback instrument - giving you very clear and clean artifacts, especially necessary for realism, and then the Novation which is a virtual analog instrument, necessary to get warm analog/filtered sounds.
There are lots of fantastic machines out there today that do these types of synthesis creation.
But if you think that any of those sounds cannot be reproduced on today's equipment, you'd be sadly mistaken.
There's not a sound on a recording that I cannot emulate with either my Kurzweil K2500XS or my Novation Supernova II.
You just gotta dig into sounds, and know how to tweak them.
I've spent plenty of time reproducing a lot of songs from the 80's, including the aforementioned groups' hit songs. People are impressed that they cannot tell the difference from the actual song from what I created.
The point is not that I am something, but that if you have an aptitude for programming, you can get what you want.
Take note, though, that I mentioned my Kurzweil, which is a very technical sample playback instrument - giving you very clear and clean artifacts, especially necessary for realism, and then the Novation which is a virtual analog instrument, necessary to get warm analog/filtered sounds.
There are lots of fantastic machines out there today that do these types of synthesis creation.
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
The trouble is, it would be a pain in the ass to duplicate the sounds of 80s digital synths with a modern analog modeling synth because the former had some bizarre programming paradigms that don't resemble the old school LFO/VCO/VCF/VCA patching paradigm in any way. So, while they can produce the same sounds, that's not really the point in using them.