getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
I saw the thread asking about Aardvarks pres and one of the responses. Sound wise/ Circuitry wise, what makes one better than another?
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Blue Bear Sound
New member
Nothing... except which high-visibility pro engineer swears by it! 
giaschel
Hello.
Nothing, really?
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
Bruce, did ya read King's "Wizards and Glass" from the Dark Tower series? That poor demented bear just couldn't get it together!
Big dumb blue bear.....that wasn't an answer.
Big dumb blue bear.....that wasn't an answer.
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tubedude
New member
I wouldnt say nothing. I wish that were fact, I'd have a about 20 dual ART pre's.
Its the circuitry, the op amps, the transformer. The transformer can have tons to do with it, and transformers of quality are expensive. The good jensen transformers cost about as much as the whole ART Tube MP Studio alone. Really good opamps make a difference too, and again, cost more money, cutting cheaper pres out of the deal. So cheap op amps, no transformers or really cheap ones, and you can get the picture. Transformers ipart a nice thickness or color on everything. Also of major importance to a mic pre is power supply. Y oushould be able to drive all pres in a unit without sagging the power supply. Thats one of the biggest problems with Mackie boards. One pre going is fine, but when you get a few going at once, the power supply lacks the necc juice, and sound qaulity and transient response starts to be affected.
Its the circuitry, the op amps, the transformer. The transformer can have tons to do with it, and transformers of quality are expensive. The good jensen transformers cost about as much as the whole ART Tube MP Studio alone. Really good opamps make a difference too, and again, cost more money, cutting cheaper pres out of the deal. So cheap op amps, no transformers or really cheap ones, and you can get the picture. Transformers ipart a nice thickness or color on everything. Also of major importance to a mic pre is power supply. Y oushould be able to drive all pres in a unit without sagging the power supply. Thats one of the biggest problems with Mackie boards. One pre going is fine, but when you get a few going at once, the power supply lacks the necc juice, and sound qaulity and transient response starts to be affected.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Heh-heh....getuhgrip said:Big dumb blue bear.....that wasn't an answer.
Well, y'all know I was kidding I hope!
Dolemite
New member
Components and Design
That's the short answer. A good design can make cheap components sound sound pretty decent. Take a look at the Symetrix SX202, Mackie 1202, or M-Audio DMP2 for examples of this. I'm sure there are expensive pres with quality components that are hindered by bad designs, but I can't think of any and I'd imagine they're a bit more rare. I don't think expensive components can make up for poor design very well.
Just to add a bit to what tubedude was saying, most cheap pres are transformerless designs. The cheapest transformer mic pre I'm aware of is the $400 Presonus MP20. Good transformers, Jensens and the like, can run upwards of $50 each even in the quantities that manufacturers purchase and are often needed in input/output pairs. So you can imagine that a transformer pre will cost the manufacturer $50-100 more per channel than a transformerless design, which is likely to translate into $100-300 more per channel for the end user.
That's the short answer. A good design can make cheap components sound sound pretty decent. Take a look at the Symetrix SX202, Mackie 1202, or M-Audio DMP2 for examples of this. I'm sure there are expensive pres with quality components that are hindered by bad designs, but I can't think of any and I'd imagine they're a bit more rare. I don't think expensive components can make up for poor design very well.
Just to add a bit to what tubedude was saying, most cheap pres are transformerless designs. The cheapest transformer mic pre I'm aware of is the $400 Presonus MP20. Good transformers, Jensens and the like, can run upwards of $50 each even in the quantities that manufacturers purchase and are often needed in input/output pairs. So you can imagine that a transformer pre will cost the manufacturer $50-100 more per channel than a transformerless design, which is likely to translate into $100-300 more per channel for the end user.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Lemme see if I can shed some light on the original question, but keep in mind this won't be as detailed as I'd like to be.
A good preamp should amplify the mic sound without adding a lot of noise to the signal. That's its main job - make the mic signal louder. Some preamps (like the Great River, for example) are clean, transparent, quiet, and give great results when you plug any mic into it. But that's not the end of the story.
Distortion is not always a bad thing. Some of the early preamps had a lot of distortion (up to 5% or so) and limited response but they still sounded great. Why? When some electronics reach their upper limits, how they distort can be very important. When tape reaches its limit, it "saturates" and can sound very full and rich on some types of music, even with 3 to 5% distortion.
In tube equipment, "even order" distortion can also make the sound fuller. Output transformers can produce wonderful saturation distortion, but these colors are by-products of the original intent.
Some preamps are designed to stay clean and clear, regardless of what is being put into them, while others will produce a pleasing (or unpleasing) coloration. But using that coloration on everything is not always desirable. It's a matter of taste.
For my own recordings, I prefer to go with clean whenever possible, and add any coloration later. Most of the low cost preamps currently available add some form of distortion and coloration. Don't ask me which ones because I haven't listen to that many of the new preamps.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
A good preamp should amplify the mic sound without adding a lot of noise to the signal. That's its main job - make the mic signal louder. Some preamps (like the Great River, for example) are clean, transparent, quiet, and give great results when you plug any mic into it. But that's not the end of the story.
Distortion is not always a bad thing. Some of the early preamps had a lot of distortion (up to 5% or so) and limited response but they still sounded great. Why? When some electronics reach their upper limits, how they distort can be very important. When tape reaches its limit, it "saturates" and can sound very full and rich on some types of music, even with 3 to 5% distortion.
In tube equipment, "even order" distortion can also make the sound fuller. Output transformers can produce wonderful saturation distortion, but these colors are by-products of the original intent.
Some preamps are designed to stay clean and clear, regardless of what is being put into them, while others will produce a pleasing (or unpleasing) coloration. But using that coloration on everything is not always desirable. It's a matter of taste.
For my own recordings, I prefer to go with clean whenever possible, and add any coloration later. Most of the low cost preamps currently available add some form of distortion and coloration. Don't ask me which ones because I haven't listen to that many of the new preamps.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Hey cool Harvey... you and I both are using avatars of our own images!
Good info too....... !!
Bruce
Good info too....... !!
Bruce
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Harvey makes some valid points. Many low cost mic pres use chip sets which often do add a coloration, and like Harvey said, this may not be a bad thing if it is what your looking for, or if it works for the track.
Using descreet componentry will usually provide a more natural sounding mic pre. I am not always a big fan of transformers, but some are good, and some simply add distortion and noise. Well designed electronic output stages are wonderful, when done right.
So the main difference is design principles by the many companies out there, so that is why it is important to be able to find a dealer who will let you audition equipment in your studio. It is always worth laying down your credit card knowing you can return something if it does work for you.
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
Using descreet componentry will usually provide a more natural sounding mic pre. I am not always a big fan of transformers, but some are good, and some simply add distortion and noise. Well designed electronic output stages are wonderful, when done right.
So the main difference is design principles by the many companies out there, so that is why it is important to be able to find a dealer who will let you audition equipment in your studio. It is always worth laying down your credit card knowing you can return something if it does work for you.
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
C
charger
New member
price
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