what makes a great song

[dragonworks]

great songwriters and great musicians

 

[vangore]

Yeah, you'll definitely get flamed for that because it's a really ignorant thing to say, and I mean that in the friendliest way.

You can't make a solid decision about anything in life while standing on the unsteady ground of ignorance, and songwriting is no different. Every verse, every chorus, every line, every word, and every note you put in a song is a choice, and if your choices are directed by education and experience they will be better far more often than blind luck.

A

hmm the point i was making was that to make unique music you need to completely ignore standard formulas like verse chorus verse bridge chorus and although i know we are all influinced on a subconcious level by the greats that proceded us i think the most intresting music would be a song that used all new ideas of how things should be done and not what mate a diffrent song great,

I dont know how well i worded that but hope the idea came through.

 

[ibanezrocks]

When I first started playing in a band my guitar teacher at the time told me there are two things that people first notice about a song, the singing and the drums. Hence the reason why my old band sucked, no one could sing, and our drummer couldn't keep the beat.
But a good guitar riff or catchy bassline really doesnt hurt either...

 

[Aaron Cheney]

hmm the point i was making was that to make unique music you need to completely ignore standard formulas like verse chorus verse bridge chorus and although i know we are all influinced on a subconcious level by the greats that proceded us i think the most intresting music would be a song that used all new ideas of how things should be done and not what mate a diffrent song great,

I dont know how well i worded that but hope the idea came through.

Yeah... I hear ya. I used to feel a lot the same way. I love "artistic" type songs that break rules and stretch boundaries as much as the next guy. But there are two things about those kinds of songs: the people who wrote them knew they were going "outside" the norm and made those choices because they served the song, and they are almost always written by the artists who performed them.

My experience has been: The albums I've made that have lots of "outside" songs in terms of subject matter, song form, etc... are still sitting in boxes in my garage. People in general just weren't interested and I've had zero succes with them. My simple songs that "follow the rules" have done much better.

A

 

[vangore]

Yeah... I hear ya. I used to feel a lot the same way. I love "artistic" type songs that break rules and stretch boundaries as much as the next guy. But there are two things about those kinds of songs: the people who wrote them knew they were going "outside" the norm and made those choices because they served the song, and they are almost always written by the artists who performed them.

My experience has been: The albums I've made that have lots of "outside" songs in terms of subject matter, song form, etc... are still sitting in boxes in my garage. People in general just weren't interested and I've had zero succes with them. My simple songs that "follow the rules" have done much better.

A

ya thats true but then again both of us would be looking at from a musicians point of view and such songs would probably be apreciated by us for there unique qualities more than the would to the guy in the street, then again said songs would probably be complete flops and so would never see the light of day, I just dont know, there are formulas that make a song "pleasant" to listen to but average songs just bore me after a few listens.

 

[Nick The Man]

What makes a great song, is something on the level of McCartney's highly adept melodic song craft & voice that's pleasant & easy on the ears. Granted, McCartney's like one in a million. Go figure.

That, & something like Lennon's cutting to the heart of true feeling with music, raw human emotion, & pushing the envelope a bit, while still adhering to recognizable & accepted songwriting standards.

You got it i agree.... best songwriters!.. easy on the ears. yeah i think you hit all the main points

 

[DingoPepper11]

Great Songs...

I can see how this could easily turn into a "tastes great/less filling" kinda debate. I suppose it's all a matter of how you measure greatness: record sales, reviews, etc. Heck, Michael Jackson has made a mint in the music biz and I can't think of one "great" song he's done.

There are great dance songs, great crying songs, songs that are great in any number of arrangements, and songs that just don't translate well from their original recordings (including a lot of the Beatles' later works). A lot of Sting's songs always sound great, even though he never seems to play them the same way twice.

It's all a matter of opinion, really; and we all have one of those.

 

[Lomas]

Someone said that not knowing what makes a song great is how you write a great song.

I disagree, I think that knowing what makes it great (through experience or just through "talent") always helps. I do think though that ignoring it and going with what feels right for you is a must. But then - to me - record sales is never ever a guarantee that something is good. To me.

 

[Aaron Cheney]

But then - to me - record sales is never ever a guarantee that something is good. To me.

Agreed. It's also never a guarantee that something is bad, and many make that assumptions as well.

I always write for the song. Every decision I make serves the song. I write lots of rockabilly tunes knowing they will most likely never see the light of day. I've written tunes in odd time signitures that will suffer the same fate. Good song writing is not about following the rules... it's about understanding the rules.

This might sound bold, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that someone who understands prosody can write better lyrics on a regular basis than someone who doesn't even know what the word means and is relying on blind luck. I'm gonna say that someone who understands alliteration can write better lyrics than someone who doesn't. Same with rhyme. Same with song form. I'm gonna say that someone who understands music theory can write better music on a regular basis than someone who thinks that A Flat Minor was a Kentucky coal disaster.

Knowledge is power. Creativity and boundaries are not mutualy exlcusive.

A

 

[kesterdevine]

#1) a great hook (doesn't necessarily have to be lyrical - can be a riff or motif -anything memorable that sticks like glue)

#2 ) a great melody (again memorable - that's what I think is missing in a lot of current music)

#3) a great groove (has to have some kind of pulse that underscores the feeling of the song)

#4) great lyrics (thoughtful/creative/meaningful/poignant said in a way that is unique)

IMO, if you can put those four elements together, you'll have a great song!

But i also think that songs sometime get by with fairly crappy lyrics if they have the other three elements.

That's my two cents worth.

 

[Lomas]

Agreed. It's also never a guarantee that something is bad, and many make that assumptions as well.
A

No it's not a guarantee of anything, but personally there's extremely few songs that I hear on radio or see on tv that does anything for me at all. It doesn't even annoy me most of the time, and I'm starting to think maybe that's even worse.

Indifference towards a song is annoying in itself (I also kind of think that food that is tasteless is worse than food that is disgusting) 'cause if a song just irritates the hell out of me I can always tell myself that it's just not my style or something.

Sorry I'm rambling