What is my songwriting like?

  • Thread starter Thread starter HazzerX
  • Start date Start date
Songwriting is my specialty and I saw no problem w/the song structure at all or anything I would personally change. But just remember you are the artist! Don't feel like you have to follow a certain flow or anything. Also, you kinda look a little like John Mayer. I like your voice too, the different tones it has. Good song and good job!
 
Want some constructive crit? Write something that's not about you. This is very selfy. I counted 32 direct or implicit "I"s and "me"s, and that's without the 16 or so "I'm still awake"s that close out the tune. That bring your total into the mid 40s. "Singer/songwriter" music is always dragged down by the notion that others care about the singer's "unique" and "complex" feelings. Really most of us don't wanna hear it and, for me at least, you putting it all out there in that warbly Tracy Chapman voice is kind of cringe inducing. Your next assignment is to go beyond yourself and your little life. Tap into your imagination. Invent stories, people, places...set yourself free!
 
A cut above what I usually hear from aspiring singers/songwriters in these forums. Good song. Good vocal. Good guitar. The song probably wouldn't get you a record or publishing deal, but I'm betting you have it in you to eventually write one that will. Thanks for sharing it.
 
I haven't heard your song but I don't agree with what flat_feet just wrote. He is entitled to his opinion but I think he came across as very harsh. You write about what ever you want. it's your creative expression. Writing about ones self can be therapeutic and healing. I've looked into that very same question as to what to write about. Is writing about my own experiences a good subject or should I write about other peoples lives and problems. The answer I got back from established song writers was to write about what ever makes you feel good or bad. As a song writer I write about my life as I see it and how it has affected me. I write about my childhood, about my friends, about friends who have passed from illness and suicide. When ever I feel bad or mad or happy, I write a song about it because that's what's real to me, so before I take up all of this post, please continue to write songs no matter what people think of them. It's your expression.
 
davidnyc64 said:
I haven't heard your song but I don't agree with what flat_feet just wrote. He is entitled to his opinion but I think he came across as very harsh. You write about what ever you want. it's your creative expression. Writing about ones self can be therapeutic and healing. I've looked into that very same question as to what to write about. Is writing about my own experiences a good subject or should I write about other peoples lives and problems. The answer I got back from established song writers was to write about what ever makes you feel good or bad. As a song writer I write about my life as I see it and how it has affected me. I write about my childhood, about my friends, about friends who have passed from illness and suicide. When ever I feel bad or mad or happy, I write a song about it because that's what's real to me, so before I take up all of this post, please continue to write songs no matter what people think of them. It's your expression.
Click to expand...

You are right, it is a matter of opinion. But even if you are writing about yourself, it has to be in context of the listener. If all of your words are just about you without regards to how the listener can become a part of it, then I don't see how anyone would want to listen. Listening to a song like that would be like taking a job as a crisis help line.

I don't care what anyone says, you write a song so people will listen and like it. Those who say different and record, 99% are flat lying. Now, doing something different is not the same, trying something new. Every artist wants to be unique and appreciated. If if only by a few, that is still more than 0.

Plus, obviously the OP wants people to like it as he/she asked. So, I really think your post was worse than fat_fleet's. Plus he listened to it. The way I read your post was; "keep doing what you are doing and don't worry about getting better." People don't come to this site to stay mediocre.
 
There's no rules to song writing, it's a art form. Get over yourself. If you're going to give a critique, at least be respectful of the artist. My reply was to inspire and encourage the songwriter. Fat_feet's comment was insulting. Everyone has a different interpretation of what they hear and a right to decide if they like it or not. Who is anyone to say you're doing it wrong. Good song writing comes with experience in music and life. Don't be so quick to judge. Some people write just for the listener and some write for both themselves and the listener. Which ever they decide is up to them, that's all I'm saying.
 
davidnyc64 said:
I haven't heard your song but I don't agree with what flat_feet just wrote. He is entitled to his opinion but I think he came across as very harsh. You write about what ever you want. it's your creative expression. Writing about ones self can be therapeutic and healing. I've looked into that very same question as to what to write about. Is writing about my own experiences a good subject or should I write about other peoples lives and problems. The answer I got back from established song writers was to write about what ever makes you feel good or bad. As a song writer I write about my life as I see it and how it has affected me. I write about my childhood, about my friends, about friends who have passed from illness and suicide. When ever I feel bad or mad or happy, I write a song about it because that's what's real to me, so before I take up all of this post, please continue to write songs no matter what people think of them. It's your expression.
Click to expand...

davidnyc64 said:
There's no rules to song writing, it's a art form. Get over yourself. If you're going to give a critique, at least be respectful of the artist. My reply was to inspire and encourage the songwriter. Fat_feet's comment was insulting. Everyone has a different interpretation of what they hear and a right to decide if they like it or not. Who is anyone to say you're doing it wrong. Good song writing comes with experience in music and life. Don't be so quick to judge. Some people write just for the listener and some write for both themselves and the listener. Which ever they decide is up to them, that's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

Greeting davidnyc64, and welcome to both HR.com and the world of online opinions! Congratulations on writing songs about your life, childhood, and friends. And you are correct, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, both about songwriting and others' opinions. :D

I noticed you posted some lyrics in this forum, asking for feedback. How would you expect other members to approach such a request? Is empty praise more valuable than a more experienced member taking the time to actually read and listen to the song, providing concise feedback as to where s/he feels the weak areas lie? If you truly believe, as you state above, that because song writing is an "art form", that there are no "rules", then why ask for feedback on your own lyrics? What are you looking to "improve"?

I should also point out that the OP asked for feedback and, presumably, for listeners' honest perceptions:

HazzerX said:
Hi all, just wondering what you think of my songwriting and if there's anything I can do better (sections, structure etc)
Click to expand...

Though you are entitled to your opinion of my critique, and more than welcome to express it, I did not solicit opinions as the OP did. My opinion, and my going out of my way to actually listen to his song (twice if I recall), was both an act of charity and also more than you were willing to do (please don't go and listen to it now to "prove your good intentions", that would just be painful for both of us).

A while back, a friend who didn't cook too often invited us and a few others by for dinner. I'll say, euphemistically, that his ideas about cooking were "unique", because he added a huge amount of cinnamon to the pasta sauce he cooked that night. We all ate it out of politeness, but it was basically a ruined batch. Was he "wrong" to add a ton of cinnamon? Are there "rules" to cooking pasta sauce? I'd say no to both, but if there was anything serious at stake for him (for instance if he was planning to open a restaurant), one of us would have to intervene for his sake and say, "Dude, pasta sauce and cinnamon tastes bad." When people ask for opinions in this forum, we have no way of knowing what's at stake...whether they're just writing songs for their mums and girlfriends, or if they seriously want to put their music "out there" for the mass public. I personally assume they want the most detailed help possible and give it when I'm able. Anyhow, thanks for your interest. I hope you get the feedback you're looking for on your lyrics, though crazy one-man crusades and hurling insults at contributing members may not be the most effective way to go about it.

And, again, welcome to the board. :)
 
Hey Fat_feet, i appreciate your point of view. We all have different ways of expressing our thoughts and opinions. i felt that yours was a little harsh, maybe you don't think so. Comparing cooking to song writing, although an interesting comparison is not really the same thing. Maybe Hazzer was looking for song writing tips on song structure or something else, it's really not fair to critique the subject matter. I too was looking for critiques on song structure and lyrical content. I'm not a professional and I'm always looking for new ways to write. If you read my lyrics and asked why are you writing about that or that? That's not what I'm looking for. Maybe we're not understanding each other but that's ok. We all have opinions and that's what makes sites like this so great. Read your critique again, maybe you'll see what I'm saying.
 
davidnyc64 said:
Maybe Hazzer was looking for song writing tips on song structure or something else, it's really not fair to critique the subject matter. I too was looking for critiques on song structure and lyrical content.
Click to expand...

I didn't critique the subject matter. I critiqued the lyrical content, specifically the overabundance of "I"s.

davidnyc64 said:
Read your critique again, maybe you'll see what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

You should know that when I said "go beyond your little life", I meant little in the sense that all our lives are little in relation to the world. After writing that, I was concerned the OP might misinterpret it but apparently he's a self-assured adult or something. Besides that one word, no I guess I'm not really following you...

davidnyc64 said:
Comparing cooking to song writing, although an interesting comparison is not really the same thing.
Click to expand...

Huh. I was actually kinda proud of that analogy. What specifically about the differences between cooking and songwriting do you feel negates my point?
 
davidnyc64 said:
There's no rules to song writing, it's a art form. Get over yourself.
Click to expand...

Harsh and a little naive. Art is not free of rules, that's ridiculous. Rules go much deeper than you have obviously considered. What about all the unwritten rules of human social behaviour and communication? They definitely apply to art. Without these subtle communicative connections between humans, art would hold no meaning except to the person that created it.

I think if you write for an audience, and you want them to get some meaning from your art, then you have to express yourself in such a way that they can understand and relate to it. How you do it is up to you, but you have to find a way to get your thoughts across without making it entirely about you.

When I write lyrics I don't want to force my listeners into MY emotions and thoughts. I want to make them think about theirs.
 
Yeah, and it's not like self-immolation is a requirement for art or anything. I personally think that, no matter what you write about, a little bit of yourself comes through. Lady Gaga can do the most insipid auto-tune dance song, but a little bit of herself creeps in. Greg_L can write a song about a martian fucking a bologna sandwich, but it is so totally him. I use "I"s a lot, but it'll be from someone else's perspective, or write in the third person but my feelings and preferences are all over it. No hard and fast rules except that the words "sound good" as sound (which they are), and usually that just means the listener doesn't trip over them. Having every other lyric be "I feel this" or "I feel that" is just asking to be slapped. One Ani DiFranco is enough.

In all fairness to the OP, he's 14. But that's all the more reason to offer advice- he's probably not gonna hang up his guitar and stop now.
 
Huh. I was actually kinda proud of that analogy. What specifically about the differences between cooking and songwriting do you feel negates my point?[/QUOTE]

Regarding your analogy to cooking, I thought it was interesting but not the same, meaning that once you've cooked a meal it's basically done, you can't really fix it if the it turns out to be bad. A song can be changed lyrically or melodically and you have more control of the outcome. I ruined many meals only having to throw it in the trash. If I struggle with a song I don't throw it away, I can put it aside and revisit it later. I'm sure you didn't mean to be harsh, it just sounded harsh. I wasn't trying to be a one man crusade as you mentioned but I think young song writers may take things to heart and feel discouraged. Anyway, we all mean well so let's move on.

Good luck
 
I agree that if you're writing to connect with an audience, then writing about things that people can relate to is key. If you're writing about personal experiences like Tom Chapin's "Cats in the cradle" it can be powerful whether you relate to it or not. What I mean by no rules is that there really isn't a right or wrong. Write about what moves you, spiritually, emotionally etc. If people can't relate, then so be it. Not every song has to be for an audience.
 
davidnyc64 said:
Anyway, we all mean well so let's move on.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me man.

davidnyc64 said:
If you're writing about personal experiences like Tom Chapin's "Cats in the cradle" it can be powerful whether you relate to it or not.
Click to expand...

Just so you know (and I wiki'd this cuz I had my suspicions), Harry Chapin's lyrics for that tune were based on a poem by his wife, who wrote it partially about her first husband and partially from the lyrics from another radio song... So, goes to show it doesn't always have to come 100% from you.
Party on Garth. :)
 
fritsthegirl said:
I think if you write for an audience, and you want them to get some meaning from your art, then you have to express yourself in such a way that they can understand and relate to it. How you do it is up to you, but you have to find a way to get your thoughts across without making it entirely about you.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure that's true. Yes, sometimes it helps. But not as a hard and fast rule. I've long felt that the artist does what the artist does and the listener will either dig it or they won't. I can't honestly relate to a 31 year old lesbian's emotions regarding a bisexual lover but I could easilly dig a well written personallly referenced song about such. Stick a good tune in there and I might not even notice the lyric to any important degree for 16 years.
fritsthegirl said:
When I write lyrics I don't want to force my listeners into MY emotions and thoughts. I want to make them think about theirs.
Click to expand...
What if they don't want to ? And why should they ?

The two opposing sides of this thread are all the more interesting to me because I can't really see that there should be a conflict.
I thought Fleet's initial comments were harsh but I also laughed {some of it was really funny}because that's part of his style and he's pretty deep and well rounded and presented that side of the argument well.
In truth, there are all kinds of songs. Writers that concentrate only on themselves and writing about themselves can come up with fantastic stuff but eventually get boring. At the same time universal writers can do some superb stuff but never really tell you what they think or feel and in the end get boring.
I have a mate that I used to record alot with, she was a great vocal harmonizer. No matter how complicated a melody you'd give her, she could harmonize to it. She used to write songs, she told me they were a way for her to remember biblical verses. She'd put them to music. Her songs were fabulous. They were very unusual, off the wall and they were a challenge to arrange and record but I thought they were glorious {except one}. She came up with about 8 or 9. The thing was, you never knew how she felt in these songs. Because the words weren't hers. I still love the songs. But they used to frustrate me. So one day, I challenged her to write a song that actually expressed how she felt. That was 10 or more years ago. I'm still waiting. As far as I know, she hasn't written any songs since then.
I think good writers write both intensely personally and universally. Sometimes both at the same time, other times not.
 
HazzerX said:
just wondering what you think of my songwriting and if there's anything I can do better
Click to expand...
You sound like an American but you're a young Brit although that's nothing to do with songwriting per se.
I don't know if you're still around this board but it's impossible to gauge someone's 'songwriting' if they've only written one song. One needs a little selection. I wouldn't like to judge you on the song you linked to although it's an OK song.
 
I think you did a good job man, I did listen to your song, and I thought your playing was great. Don't mind me, and sorry for hijacking your thread. I didn't mean to be argumentative. :)

I was actually only disagreeing with the comment about there being no rules to art. So what I said wasn't a specific critique of your song, it was more a supporting argument to say why I disagreed with that statement.

In my opinion, rules aren't always boring, they do serve some purpose in knowing your art, and they can always be bent and broken. The glory and fun of being young is exploring this, and I guess that's kind of what I meant to say. Enjoy the exploration, and keep writing. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top