What is it with people in "The Business"

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Fmmahoganyrush

Fmmahoganyrush

Pleads the 5th...
I've been shooting my new tune out to anyone and everyone even remotely involved with the music biz to try to get some feedback on my efforts. "I Saw A Tear In Lady Liberty's Eye Today"
I sent it to my college roomate, who happens to be a vice-president / general manager of a couple of radio stations, I sent it to a guy I bonded out of jail who happens to be the Director of Composition at Berklee / Boston & the conductor for the Washington Symphonic (who wanted the whole thing hush-hush - while promising me the world at the time), as well as untold numbers of record companies, publishers, radio stations... The only one to actually accept the e-mailing (which doesn't say he actually listened to it) was Howard Stern... ...Probably so he can rip it to shreds on one of his up comming shows. I dunno... ...I'm doing this home recording stuff because I'm not in the position to gig anymore, and I thought this might be the answer to keeping the music in my blood, but it's frustrating me more than doing anything else. Keep an eye on EBAY... ..There might be a studio for sale / package deal / CHEAP.:mad:
 
got any synthesizers???


Hey I find that thats the way it is. I think a lot of it is that a solo musician needs to have some sort of band to play live to build up a fan base. I too am a solo musician and havent gotten any word on material I have sent out, but I am finally apart of a band and maybe that may an open door for something down the road. I dont know though.

Good luck with your stuff, I know how hard it is.

John
 
Speaking of band, I have practice right now, and tonight I'll give your song a listen! Later.
 
For a synth? I have an Ensonique ESP with a Korg NS5R sound module going through a Mackie 1202VLZ into a Delta 66. I'll e-mail you before I decide to throw them out the window:eek: Tom.
 
Hi Tom, well, I'm in the "Biz", and I listened!!

Very good, is that you singing? Excellent style for this type of music. Now is obviously the time to approach people.
It is a very cool song, very poignant lyrics, you could have a chance if you got it to the right hands.

Some thoughts:

The intro is basically 40 seconds of nothing. That is an eternity to a producer/record company type. Since this is basically a " Demo" (not in Quality, more in Synths vs Orch), If you could have a three second intro, at least someone will get to the vocals and listen to the words.

Do you know any brass or string players? Even one trumpet player, blended in, would make a huge difference, and maybe you could find one and give him a hundred bucks?



I sent it to a guy I bonded out of jail who happens to be the Director of Composition at Berklee / Boston & the conductor for the Washington Symphonic
Really? I know the director of comp at Berklee, and there is no such thing as the Washington Symphonic Orch! Email if you wish, tell me who your friend is, I will keep it totally confidential.

Tom, what are you doing to get this out? Who are you contacting,who are you sending stuff too, etc? When I hear it, I think two words: KENNY ROGERS. He is a crossover, has a similiar style, American Icon, Country folks love him. Contacted him? Sure it is hard, but you could do it, Just find his management and make your package look like it is coming from a woman! I would suggest perfume, but that might leave a powder residue, if you know what I mean:(

If you want some links to some sites or some more ideas, let me know. I dont want to sound morbid, but know is the time to get that tune out there, as time heals wounds and people forget.Dave
 
Thanx David. I can always count on you for a shoulder to lean on. (REALLY). Yeah, I know the tune is nothing more than a demo, but the nuts & bolts are there to be built upon. A kick-ass horn section all the way down to the baritone sax, strings (real) including the whole gambit... ...shit, it has room for an entire orchestra, which would make the intro seem shorter and more involved. BTW, yeah, it's me singing... ...it's me on everything on this tune...write it, compose it play it record it put my F^cking heart into it... ...for what??????? Seriously, I'm ready to bag the whole music thing. I use to use it as a kind of therapy, but now I'm obsessing over this stupid song so I may just bag the whole music thing to get my mind back in order. Thanx, Tom.
 
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Tom, that song made me feel good and thats what it is all about....if you let record companies and radio stations keep you from making good music it would be a big mistake.....you may not reach the masses or enjoy the commercail success youd like, i think you are already a success.....

are you looking to suceed as an artist or songwriter.....id try to scope out publishers to get the song published and possibly recorded by others....the market for this song may have diminished, but ive heard others from you and i think you have just as much chances as a songwriter as anyone....unfortunately, as an artist, success sint based on talent, but on marketability and us old farts arent exactly what labels are looking for.....
 
.....you may not reach the masses or enjoy the commercail success youd like, i think you are already a success.....

Bingo, Gidge.

Good song, good feel-good stuff. Keep the studio Tom, you have touched people here. Your tune is in the same realm as the Lee Greenwood tune. Maybe he got lucky, maybe you will too, but the important part is the song; if people wrote songs to get them on the radio, every song would be sung by Britney Spears.

Ironically, you wrote a tune about 9/11, and you are talking about baggin music? Dont be a casuality, send your song to everybody, and if it doesnt hit, write another one. Giving up music is like giving up breathing. Who cares if the tunes dont hit the top 40. Nothing cooler than being an artist, no matter who buys your art:cool:
 
Thanx again David.

And Gidge... ...I Love You Man... You hit a chord with me though. Us "Old Farts" seem to be the only ones writing music that I'm actually interested in. So how come the "Companies" don't see us as a market. The "Harley Mistique" thread in the Cave hit upon marketing to the market with the $$$. Supposedly, aren't we old farts the ones who are supposed to have the $$$? I watch VH1 and MTV and want to throw my T.V. out the window... ...Talent??? Shit, even the country station is showing some guy trying to crossover into some kind of Country/Rap/Hip-Hop fusion thing. So Shit, I saw it (can't remember the name - as with most traumatic experiences, I try to block them from memory), and it wasn't working... ...But it WAS getting airplay. I dunno. Hey David, did you get my e-mail on "that guy", and does the name ring a bell?

UpstateNY - Thanx, I thing I'll go out and do some work on my future studio. It's the settler's cape on my property (where the people lived when they were building the big house - Circa 1773) It's a mess, but I'm trying to preserve what I can of it for obvious reasons. I have a picture of the "Big House" on my webpage. IF YOU GO ONTO MY WEBPAGE, SIGN THE GUEST BOOK, DAMMIT.

NevilleMusic.com

Rochambeau the French General who met up with Washington to finally Kick the Brits out'a here, stayed here when it was an Inn (wrote about it in his diaries), and his troops camped around the yard. Kinda cool stuff. I've been taking pics of the progress on the little house (a 2 year job thus far, and I'm not even done with the outside yet) and post them in the Studio forum. I had a picture taken of me in the house when I had two walls and the roof completely off, studs, floor, sill beam roof joist beam, all jacked up with supports and the rotted ends of the roof joists just haning there. I was sitting on the toilet (The olny thing left standing inside, and was going to use it as a CD cover with a title like "Things Could Be Worse" or something. I have to see if I can did that one up. Thanx again all, I need to put an alcohol level reading device on my computer so I can't log on when I'm in my Irish melancholy state of mind.Tom.
 
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Man, I'm going to come off like a major asshole. I appologize in advance, I don't want to make an enemy but I have to let you know how I feel man. I don't know you. You could be a really great guy. I am going to attack you and your music, and it's going to be personal because music is personal. I wish there was another way....like something mathematical: "I don't care for this or that because clearly x=(y/m) and you've got too much y".

Ok...

First I find it almost kind of insulting when I hear amatures, like almost all of us around here, wondering why their latest cut isn't selling. It's one thing when corporations sellout musicians, it's a much sadder thing when musicians sell themselves out. This will NEVER pay off. It's not *supposed* to pay off. If it does pay off, then you're one of the fortunate ones. And the fact that you seem to be trying to sell this song based on the recent events, well that's just plain not right.

Next, and this is the brutal honesty part, I think the song is not...well it's not very good. The piano sound is cheap. The synth is contrived and cliche. The drum sound is so canned it sounds like you didn't even try. The bass is so canned that it's INSIDE the drum can. The vocals are overly dramatic. The lyrics are so obvious that they become irritating and almost insulting very quickly. The guitar solo is expected and cliche, not to mention that it sounds like you just dialed up a POD sound at random and let it rip. The song structure and writing has been done, not once, not ten, not one gazillion, but one megatrillian times. It sounds like a parody; like an adam sandler song except that the content isn't humorous. If this song popped up on the radio, I would literally turn the channel because I have a hard time sitting through it.

If you're thinking about selling your studio because this song isn't making you any money or getting any national airplay, then sell it. The music isn't in your blood if those are your goals and this is your best effort. Well, there may be music in your blood, but it's time to recognize the difference between writers, directors and actors.

Personally I hope you forget about radio stations and howard stern, and learn to find the true art inside yourself. This song may be meaningful to you, but just writing "september 11th saddened me" on a piece of paper is not art. It doesn't convey any unique or true sense of emotion to the audience. And if you think that I'm saying that you need to write what people want to hear, your 180 degrees wrong. I think that your songwriting style is one that plays to what other people want to hear. I'd have a hard time believing that at the end of the day you turn your stereo on and listen to something that sounds like this production. I don't think that you're being honest with yourself. I only say this because being honest with yourself is one of the HARDEST things for a musician or artist to do, it really is. And I say this because over the past few years I've been finding myself, and my voice, and it's not easy. I'm still not there.

Usually I try to keep my most negative comments to myself, whichis why I didn't reply to your original thread. But after reading your comments in this thread, I think that it would have wrong to keep this to myself.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hey Slack, One word... ...DEMO. Three words... ...DEMO, DEMO, DEMO.... And no, I don't think you're an asshole (And nobody else should flame you for the coments/criticism/whatever). But, "never pay off"? Why not have the dream? Granted, it's something to keep under control, and not get obsessive compulsive over (staying away from tequela might help in these situations:D ).

The song was written from the heart about an event, thus it is somewhat of a timely song, plain & simple. The song itself... ...Again, DEMO, DEMO, DEMO. I was trying to hook up with people who might be able to hook me up with other people to get the tune done professionally with real horns, bass, strings, ENGINEERING, etc...

I know, the piano - ehh, the synth - ehh, the drums, hell, I played the part myself on a Roland SPD-6 (although I did tweak them via Cakewalk), the bass, you got me there, it's terrible, the progression... ...Hell, there ain't nothing out there that the Beatles haven't already done, so we're all sunk from the start. But don't start saying shit about my voice. I had a cold, but wanted to get the track down anyway, so yeah, a little too much effort, but needed to at least almost hit some of the notes.

The Guitar; went through a Korg A-5 (yeah, one still actually exsists (again DEMO, DEMO, DEMO). The lead itself wasn't thought of until the whole tune was down. I picked up the guitar and started going through the tune and after 5 or 6 takes, I realized that the progression was similar to "Amazing Grace", and so it was...

Now, about "just writing september 11th makes me sad isn't art"... Andy Warhol would have made millions on that one... ...remember the soup can????? Anyway Slack, no big deal. I still think it's a great song, with a lot of potential. I actually hesitated putting it to music until I went on mp3.com and heard some of (what I considered) lame attempts at bagging "the BIG hit", and decided, well shit, I think mines better, so I'll whip something together. Again DEMO. I really wanted to get it out there and get the thing done up professionally.

P.S. Slack. My Webpage is better than yours :D ... ..I could go on, but... ...I do like the "SUCK" meter though, that cracks me up. Thanx, Tom
 
Ok, fair enough. Thank you for considering my viewpoint.

I guess I just gave up on being famous a long time ago. Once that became a non-issue I was able to focus more on what *I believe* is the path that truely pays off. And when somebody mentions to me that they've been listening to one of my songs...well, that's just icing on the cake. The creation itself is the payoff.

I still don't quite see what you were expecting, considering that even you consider your recording to be a demo. Maybe I missed your point and over-reacted. Hmm.

Maybe instead of trying to hook up, you can try to come up with a final product with the equipment you've got. You might not be able to push something out in a traditional sense, and you might have to try some things that you wouldn't normally have tried, but I've heard some people do some pretty suprising things in completely minimal environments. For instance, I think that your song would have been more powerful had you simply sat down with an acoustic and recorded it live...no canned instruments, no guitar solos, no keys.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Tom, I have heard of your friend. He has a good resume, good guy to know, plus he is a composer. He had a piece of his performed by the New York Phil and Zubin Mehta, not an easy task.
Man, I'm going to come off like a major asshole
Umm, no comment, at least you backed off on the second post.
Maybe I missed your point and over-reacted. Hmm.
I think Tom's point was how difficult it is to get feedback from the music biz, even a guy who he helped get out of jail. Broken promises are frequent in the biz, Tom seems to have burned burned by two friends, I think he was just venting.
I think that your songwriting style is one that plays to what other people want to hear.
I wish somebody would someday explain to me what this means. I have heard it so many times, but it is absurd. Can you imagine a TV Producer saying " this is just what other people want to see"? Isnt that a good thing?
 
David, I backed off in the first thread before I even began.

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I think that your songwriting style is one that plays to what other people want to hear.
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What this means is not that <whoever> is writing music that other people want to hear, but that they are following traditional worn out paths instead of trying to find their own. I am not saying that this is what Tom is doing, but from what I heard in that song it was the conclusion that I drew. Granted it might not be fair. And yes, I'm coming off conceded and rude, but if Tom wants success in the business, I thought it was only proper to be completely honest...... Reason being that to succeed in "the business", you have to give the people what they want. I am one of the people. He got lots of positive feed back in his first thread, and I read this thread as "people like this song, why isn't anyone in the business interested??!! What's wrong with them??!". Hence my reply.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slack: Even a "I'm not inserested" or "your song sucks" is better than no reply at all. Really, the people in "the business" I'm most, should I say, disappointed at, are the ones David mentioned. One was a frickin college roomate for 4 years (and I used to pork one of the DJs he has on one of his shows back in my college daze - she was a DJ back then as well), and the other I treated like royalty, above and beyond the line of duty. So I guess that's where the frustration comes from. I realize EVERYBODY can't respond to all the stuff that gets thrown at them daily, but these two guy could have and should have out of common decency, even if it was simply to say "I'm not inserested" or "your song sucks" . That's all... ...End of rant... ...Back to the drawing board:) . Everybody needs a shoulder once in a while... ...Everyone needs a good kick in the ass once in a while too, and sometimes we need them both at the same time! Thanx all, Tom.
 
Love your art...$$$'s are nothing if you're not doing what you love

Hey. Take it from the DAUGHTER of a founding member of a platinum band!!!

I COULD be walked into Quincy Jones office with a 'meet my daughter' here's her demo line. But my Father doesn't believe in that stuff. He had to work hard to get his 'big break' and said he wouldn't be the artist he is today without that work. I have a lot of work to do. And being here, surrounded by the support and the combined knowledge of all of us 'musicians' is exactly what I needed.

My Father gave me NO ADVICE what so ever concerning the music biz until I had a CAREER under my belt and demonstrated to him that I would not have to be a 'starving artist' waiting tables for the rest of my life while waiting to get signed.

That career he made me obtain provided me with a means to purchase the equipment which I use to record at home with so that I don't have to worry about being pimped for my lyrics or voice.

Those tracks that I record from home are HORRID, but with each one I make, it GETS BETTER.

I am first and foremost a SONGWRITER and realize I MAY NEVER WRITE A HIT!!! But I LOVE MAKING MUSIC and even if the only ones who hear it are my partners in crime here at homerecording.com and my family members. I feel good. And you should too. I heard your stuff. I don't know what to think about it other than. RIGHT ON!!! Keep on doing what you're doing!!! You said you watch VH1...do you skip past the 'Where are they now?' or 'Diary of a Rock Star' shows. Some of these people got what you're searching so hard to find...'that hit', and the SECOND they got it fell down and realized it wasn't what they really wanted in the first place. They state...they had lost the love, it wasn't fun, it was too much, etc. etc.

The day you start writing your music for the $$$ rather than for your heart you're through!!! Whether you made it to 'the top'. Or not. Keep writing, don't worry about the end result. If you feel music is in your blood...let it run free. Until the day you start taking your blood to the bank. (OK, i see the blood bank jokes coming already, you know what I mean) The $$$ don't matter.
 
mshea: You're right. And 99.9 percent of the time I'm doing music for the love (and fun) of it. But every once in a while, I wish it could suppliment my income a liitle more. And not particularly for myself, but for my spouse. We own a couple of businesses and she really works her ass off 24/7. It's not like I aspire to be filthy rich, but VERY comfortable, without putting in the time we are now to be "comfortable". Even if I had untold wealth, I'd still have to work (and play) to keep my sanity, I'm sure of it. I always told myself that the day music (mainly gigging) became a pain in the ass, was the day I'd quit gigging, because that's not what got me started into music in the first place, and I've held true to that. I've always put it down before I ended up hating it. Yeah, every once in a while I throw my hands up in the air, but give it up... ...no way! My wife wouldn't let me. The day the equipment would go out the door, so would my butt off the end of her foot. To date, I've never sold or traded a piece of equipment that I've purchased (except a JBL Sub that was as big as a house & didn't need in the first place). I know the saying "be carefull what you wish for...", and I try to be. But every once in a while... ...well, you know. Anyway, the chin's back up, and the pen's back at the paper. And you're right about this place. It is like a sub culture of musicians from one end of the spectrum to the other, who do music (at least here, although some may even be in "The Business";) ) for the love of it. Thanx, Tom.
 
"It's not about the bills...that's not keepin it real...a lot of tight rappers out here ain't got no deal."

I'm not much of a hip hop listener but J5's got it right.



This forum is incredible.
 
Just a few thoughts.

I don't frequent this section of the forum because it takes forever to download mp3s on a 56k modem, and if I stream the song, it's not like I'm going to hear it well enough to give a quality critique...

I downloaded this one though, because I found the discussion to be really interesting.

Take all this for what it's worth. I'm not exactly an authority on anything. :)

One. PLEASE get a different mp3 encoder. It sounds like you may have used Blade-128kbps, and Blade is a terrible encoder for mp3.com mp3s. Blade is really only good for archival. It attempts to reproduce highs accurately, which adds a lot of artifacts at any bitrate under 320kbps. At 320 though, it has a beautiful transparent sound that's head and shoulders above any mp3 encoder.

For low bitrates such as 128kbps, I highly recommend LAME. It's free, and it's what I use when encoding at 128, 192, or VAR kbps. If you encode an mp3 at 128kbps and you still don't like the way it sounds, try adding a lowpass filter at 20khz or even 18hkz.

I don't necessarily like to criticise songs that aren't what I would normally listen to anyway. But for what it's worth, the thing this song's missing is a hook, in my opinion. If you're going to do a heartland-American-torch-power-ballad-flagwaving-song-type-thing, you need a chorus that makes people want to sway, shout, pump their fists, or whatever it is that they do.

Who could ever forget:

"BOOOOOOOOOOOORN in the USA!!!!"

"Ain't that America, home of the FREEEEEEEEEE, yeah..."

Do you like baseball? If you can capture the lump I felt in my throat every time I heard "God Bless America" performed during this year's World Series, THEN you've got a patriotic rocker to die for. But you're not there yet.

I would try conveying the emotion of your subject through your music or lyrics, rather than in your voice. It isn't that you don't have a good voice, but I feel that you're over singing, trying just a bit too hard to sell the song. Let the song sell itself.

Speaking of "sell", don't let anyone criticise you for wanting fame and fortune, or at least notoriety and comfort. As artists, we want to express ourselves. But we also want to be loved, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. It isn't selling out if you try to prod people into listening to your song, and it isn't selling out if you one day land that big deal.

I would replace those brasses with ANYTHING. If you have a Creative card, get a good brass soundfont. Or try to get a few brass players. Heck, if I lived anywhere near you, I'd do it for free. The brass part you wrote is very easy. If you tried, you wouldn't have any trouble getting a few high schoolers to record that part for $25 each. And don't be afraid to go with high schoolers. You'd be surprised how professionally some kids can play. Maybe it just sticks out to me because I do play band and orchestra instruments, but I think that brass lick sticks out like a sore thumb. I wouldn't just remove it though, because it's one of the song's more interesting components. It was one of the few parts of the song that I felt I hadn't heard elsewhere.

One other thing. I may be a sinner preaching to the converted here, because I know I'm also very guilty of this - but if I were you - ... hang on.

You may not even really do this normally. I know you were getting defensive due to some sharp criticism.

But my advice, is to not release any song to the public that you have to put a disclaimer on. Don't say "x, y, and z suck, but this is a demo. Pay more attention to a, b, and c." Because that won't inspire ANYONE to listen to your song. Some people in your audience will even find it insulting that you chose to unleash something upon them, that even you weren't fully satisfied with. Instead, you work your butt off at making x, y, and z sound as good as you can possibly make them sound. So what if it takes a few more weeks of work? THEN, when you release your song, go ahead and act like it's the best thing ever. More people will want to check it out. So what if x, y, and z still suck? YOU did the best that you could.

Two personal examples:

I recently decided to reopen my mp3.com page for the instrumental music that I sometimes like to write. One song in particular received quite a few compliments on its tonal quality, and somebody wanted to know where I got the instruments that I used. The truth was, about half of the instruments were default tones in my Sound Blaster. I just worked bloody hard to get them to sound decent!

Another one. I've been working since early March on my debut EP. That's about eight months, and I'm probably still at least half a year away from finishing it. And that's just a four song EP from a guy that nobody's ever heard of. I know that very few people are going to hear it, because very few people know or care that I exist. But I'm working my butt off anyway. Why? Because I want the people who DO hear it to be blown away, rather than feeling insulted that I had the nerve to ask for money for a demo.

Instead of thinking in the long term, hoping that an angel will come down from the heavens and give you the resources you need to make your recording a great one, do the best you can with the resources you already have. There is ALWAYS room for improvement. So often, I see people on this forum go out and buy the new $999.99 WonderSoundEnhancer1024BitDigitalThingamabobber, only to grumble that they still aren't getting the "big studio sound". It makes me want to laugh, because many of the best recordings I've heard from forum members were made on dirt cheap equipment.

The studio equipment that many of us have, absoultely blows away what was used to record, say, Abbey Road. And I have yet to hear a recording by any forum member, including myself, that competes with anything on that album. I wonder why?

Anyway, just one guy's thoughts. I'm out.
 
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After reading this thread, I felt I had to comment on it. It's probably dead already (the thread), but Hmmm...

Fmmahoganyrush, there isn't a day that has gone by in my exceptionally unremarkable career that I haven't asked myself "why?" You know, why the hell do I bother? This thing that I do sucks up my cash and doesn't give any material reward back - I drive myself crazy in the studio trying to put down ideas that few people will hear and fewer will appreciate, and I drive my wife crazy with the "I'm an ARTIST, leave me alone so I can work!!!" So WHY?!?
The answer is simple, because I HAVE to do it. I've though about chucking music, even recently - but I won't. I've had too much success in my exceptionally unremarkable career. And I know that if I sell all of my shit, in a month or two I'll start to replace it with more & more expensive music shit anyway. I don't have a choice really.

Success (though I may had a few minor brushes with the accepted version of the word) in my book isn't about radio play, selling a tune, signing a deal, or $$$ - (or downloads from the 'Net)

Dude, it's about that guy from bumf*ck somewhere in the Midwest who heard my tune(s) from a friend of a friend or something & tracks me down via e-mail to ask for a CD. Or the dude in Russia or wherever who dropped a line just to say that he heard my shit on the 'Net or somewhere and digs it. It's the little things that keep me going. but the most man, THE MOST, I get from this shit is listening to a new track of mine and getting that shiver down my spine that says "That's the real deal." (Even if everyone else thinks it sux big time. So what?) That's what it's all about for me.

Sorry about you unresponsive friends, but so what? Do what you do. Regardless, though this sounds like a pep-talk - it's not. I'm just trying to point out that maybe you've got your eye on the wrong ball.

Anyway - I don't know why I'm spouting all of this drivel tonight. Must be too much turkey or something & I'm just out of smokes, so that's all. Good luck man.
 
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