What Is An Alt 3-4 Bus Used For?

[Dr. Varney]

On my mixer, I have alt 3-4 sliders and outputs. Do I have to have something in strip 3 and/or 4 for them to work or are they like an alternative 'main mix', through which I can send all of the stuff plugged into my mixer to my computer?

Please can someone explain because the instructions which came with my mixer assume I am familiar with 'alt 3-4' and I just don't know what it is.
I would really like to understand the principle of this, not just rig something parrot fashion from a manual, without knowing why I am doing it.

And why are they always 3-4? Why not alt 5-6 or alt 1-2?

So when would I use these outputs and why? Where can I connect them to?

Thanks

 

[gecko zzed]

One use of them is as a subgroup.

For example, you could have a drum kit miked up using, say, four channels. Using the Alt 3-4 bus switch, you direct these to the Alt 3-4 outputs, which you can patch pack into the desk into, say, a single stereo channel. This means if you want to control the levels of the drums as a whole, you only have one slider to move.

Its called alt 3-4 because it gives you outputs 3 & 4 in addition to the main bus which gives you 1 & 2.

 

[NYMorningstar]

Another use for them is for isolating the tracks you are recording which is handy for mixers that don't have direct outs for each channel. For example if you have all your tracks routing to the mains for playback but you want to record only the track(s) you are playing, you can send it to the alt channel and just record the alt out.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Think of Alt 3/4 as "alternative mix 3/4", with the "alternate" meaning alternative to the main stereo sub mix channels 1&2.

This alternative submix bus can be used for any number if things. Beside what has already been mentioned, it can also be used as an effects bus.

Another popular application is to create a separate stage monitor mix or headphone mix to send back to the band.

G.

 

[Dr. Varney]

What I'm trying to do here, is record into Cubase, multiple times, without the first track being recorded into the second.

Tweakheadz guide suggested I use alt 3/4 connected to the record-in socket of my soundcard but this isn't working and although I'm picking up snippets of know-how as I go along, I'm finding the wealth of connectivity options confusing.

So can anyone advise me on how to rig my mixer so I can record two tracks, one after the other and be able to listen to the first track, without recording it into the second?

In other words - I first record the bass. Then I want to record guitar afterwards on a seperate track. I need to hear the bass, so I can play guitar along with it but not have the bass record again, into the track on which I'm playing guitar (obviously). They need to be seperate but I need to monitor them at the same time.

Just HOW do you DO this?!

Thanks

Dr. V

 

[Chili]

Its called alt 3-4 because it gives you outputs 3 & 4 in addition to the main bus which gives you 1 & 2.

Think of Alt 3/4 as "alternative mix 3/4", with the "alternate" meaning alternative to the main stereo sub mix channels 1&2.

Your mixer has two main outs; Left and Right or you could call them 1 & 2. Your mixer also gives you the option of having another two separate outs 3 & 4, these are Alternative Outs. In each channel strip, there should be a push button switch that lets you choose between Main and Alts 3/4. It might just be labeled Alt 3/4 or even Mute Alt 3/4 orsomething like that.

What I'm trying to do here, is record into Cubase, multiple times, without the first track being recorded into the second.

Tweakheadz guide suggested I use alt 3/4 connected to the record-in socket of my soundcard but this isn't working and although I'm picking up snippets of know-how as I go along, I'm finding the wealth of connectivity options confusing.

So can anyone advise me on how to rig my mixer so I can record two tracks, one after the other and be able to listen to the first track, without recording it into the second?

In other words - I first record the bass. Then I want to record guitar afterwards on a seperate track. I need to hear the bass, so I can play guitar along with it but not have the bass record again, into the track on which I'm playing guitar (obviously). They need to be seperate but I need to monitor them at the same time.

Just HOW do you DO this?!

Thanks

Dr. V

Are you using the Tape Ins and Tape Outs as I suggested in another thread?? If so, then I'm not sure what else to say. Twekheadz makes a good suggestion with the Alt 3/4. You are probably missing something with it.

Honestly, this is the reason I gave up on using a mixer to record with and just go straight into an interface. Well, actually, I have a firewire mixer, but the inputs get tapped off before going through the mixer section. Sooooo much easier.

 

[Dr. Varney]

I can ask questions all day long but I know the only way to be sure of anything, is to experiment practically. It's just a bit of a faff to keep trying different things, when I have to route cables under the desk and around to my equipment rack.

Next, I am gonna try taking the two halves of the main mix to the computer L & R IN sockets then see if I can mute out the line input to which the computer is attached, then listen in on the control room output.

That still doesn't quite explain how I am going to hear what I'm playing but when I did this with my laptop, I managed to hear what was coming back through the line input, from the computer.

Tape outs! Yes, I can record using tape out but I'm not able to isolate the channels. The second recording picks up what the DAW is playing back. Is there anything in the DAW or in DSP Patchmix I can use to mute from the recording, but still listen in?

Does any of this make sense, I wonder?

Dr. V

 

[noisewreck]

RTFM for both your mixer AND soundcard

It does wonders.

 

[Chili]

Tape outs! Yes, I can record using tape out but I'm not able to isolate the channels. The second recording picks up what the DAW is playing back. Is there anything in the DAW or in DSP Patchmix I can use to mute from the recording, but still listen in?

Does any of this make sense, I wonder?

Dr. V

Tape Outs, good. What about Tape In?? From your EMU Outs to the Tape In on the mixer. Push the Tape button in the little "Source" section. This will send whatever is coming out of the EMU to the Ctrl Rm/Phones, so you can monitor what is being played without recording it. Be sure NOT to have Tape To Main selected. It's all in the manual.

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pdf/man/m_631234.pdf

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

What I'm trying to do here, is record into Cubase, multiple times, without the first track being recorded into the second.
...
So can anyone advise me on how to rig my mixer so I can record two tracks, one after the other and be able to listen to the first track, without recording it into the second?

In other words - I first record the bass. Then I want to record guitar afterwards on a seperate track. I need to hear the bass, so I can play guitar along with it but not have the bass record again, into the track on which I'm playing guitar (obviously). They need to be seperate but I need to monitor them at the same time.

Just HOW do you DO this?!

First, trust no one who spells any word with the letter "z" unless that word actually has the letter "z" in it.

Seriously, the key here is making sure what's being played back from the computer does not get re-recorded again. This means making sure the channel you do not wish to re-record is disabled from recording.

The easiest way should be to handle it in Cubase instead of the mixer. For example: let's say on the mixer you have the bass coming in on input channel 1, and guitar on input channel 2. Then connect main outs 1 & 2 (or, if you're using them for something else, Aux/Alt 3 & 4) to the ins on your computer interface. Route the channel 1 to track 1 in Cubase and channel 2 to track 2 in Cubase.

Then, simply engage/disengage the record capability on each track in Cubase as needed. When recording bass, engage record on Cubase track 1 and turn it of on Cubase track 2. Then when recording guitar, do just the opposite.

G.

 

[Dr. Varney]

RTFM for both your mixer AND soundcard

It does wonders.

As I said:

the instructions which came with my mixer assume I am familiar with 'alt 3-4' and I just don't know what it is.

This basically means that, as a beginner, I'm finding it hard to learn directly from the manual, without a bit of outside advice. Otherwise, I'd have RTFM and not come here in the first place.

 

[Dr. Varney]

First, trust no one who spells any word with the letter "z" unless that word actually has the letter "z" in it.

I agree. His grammar is terrible but his advice was sound.

Anyway, Glenn, thanks for yours, too but I have it worked out now.

Basically I had neglected to remember the other purpose of the MUTE button - which is: a means to send what's coming in on that strip to ALT 3/4 (which feeds into the soundcard's IN). Now this is working exactly as I wanted it to. There was no need to route the main mix anywhere, but back to the amp.

As for Cubase, I had already tried making sure the record-arm buttons on the tracks were correct but this wasn't the problem, you see. The net signal coming into Cubase contained the other track, I'd previously recorded, 'till I sorted out the mixer.

So I've written it all down in the little notebook I keep next to the mixer.

Kind regards

Dr. V

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Basically I had neglected to remember the other purpose of the MUTE button - which is: a means to send what's coming in on that strip to ALT 3/4 (which feeds into the soundcard's IN).

Hey, Doc,

I'm happy you have it worked out.

Just a small word of heads-up for the future; that function you mention of mute acting like a 1/2 - 3/4 toggle is mixer-specific - not all mixers with an auxiliary bus will automatically operate that way. The "Alt" designation instead of "Aux" should have tipped me off. Anyway, just something to keep in the back of your head should you ever need or want to perform on a different mixer than what you got.

And yea, I'm joking about Tweakheadz. That is a very good website. I just have this problem with dumb purposeful misspelling styles (Even Gearslutz, even though it'z populated by some of the finest engineerz in the industry, bugz the zhit out of me ).

G.

 

[Dr. Varney]

Hey, Doc,

I'm happy you have it worked out.

Just a small word of heads-up for the future; that function you mention of mute acting like a 1/2 - 3/4 toggle is mixer-specific - not all mixers with an auxiliary bus will automatically operate that way. The "Alt" designation instead of "Aux" should have tipped me off. Anyway, just something to keep in the back of your head should you ever need or want to perform on a different mixer than what you got.

And yea, I'm joking about Tweakheadz. That is a very good website. I just have this problem with dumb purposeful misspelling styles (Even Gearslutz, even though it'z populated by some of the finest engineerz in the industry, bugz the zhit out of me ).

G.

Thanks!

Hey, I'm even getting sounds into Sonar, which was really the application I was hoping to use. It's a good feeling...

As for Z's - well, you can join my crusade against txt spk on the internet. You have a full keyboard, you're not paying per word and it's bloody annoying! Tell me about it...

Cheers.

Dr. V