What if your Kick Drum isn't thick enough?

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TripleM

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I've had problems where the kick drum is not coming through in the mix. I've turned up the levels, but it starts clipping before any good sound comes through. Here are some things I've done that have helped:

1. Give an EQ boost at 120 Hz or so
2. Duplicate the track
3. Put in a 20-30 msec delay
4. Add some reverb

What are your reactions to those approaches? What do you like? What don't you like? Do you have better ideas? Please let me know.

Thanks.
 
Only idea 2 is going to help.

120Hz is WAY too high of a frequency to boost. That will only make it sound more annoying. Try boosting exactly half that, 60Hz.

The deley is just going to contribute to forms of phase cancellation. No need for that.

Reverb will just wash it out. A very short reverb might help, but even a 300ms decay time is too long for a kick.

Copy the track and eq out everything above 100Hz on one, and boost 60 a bunch. Compress the heck out of it after the eq.

On the other track, eq out everything below 200Hz and do a boost at about 4KHz, and again, compress the heck out of it after the eq.

You will need a noise gate on both track before the eq.

You will find that adjusting the release time of the low end track's compressor will add more length and gerth to the kick.

Creepy
 
First off (if this is not too obvious:) ), lower the other tracks if need be so it can stick out.
Next is eq and/or dynamics control. Look for what is covering up the kick's sound and/or what can be added or taken away from the kick to make it sound right. I prefer to start the process by cutting at problem frequencies first. Look 'booming' and low-imd mud in the 100- 500hz range in particular. This step might also let you need less high-mid boost if it still needs more edge.
Last, consider compression or limiting if some hits still fall in the cracks. I prefer a minimum amount of limiting (dbx-peakstop, urltra funk's lookahead limiter for example) for leveling, over heavy compression if you not trying to change the sound a bunch.

Very short delays or room verb can add, if there is room made in the mix for it, but gererally they soften and set things back.
Hope that helps some.
wayne
 
First things first.. try reversing your phase on your kick track.. if it's out of phase, that should help ALOT.
 
Compression with 4:1 about 5ms attack and long release at 3-6db reduction - added with some 60-80 in the eq works for mine. (I think those setting are right)
 
Was the head too loose when it was recorded?

I'm half kidding about this, but you could always try that old snare trick: Isolate the kickand send just the lows of the track into an amp and into an old car speaker that touches the head of the kick. Play and re-record the track with the speaker being used as the kick's beater.

...hey .. it might be worth a try :)
 
Sean,

It seems the group "Papa Roach" has nicked your avatar for their latest CD cover :( (Actually, thought of your avatar when I saw it at Media Play :))

Carry on about kicks! :)

(sorry MMM; don't wanna hijack the thread :D -- but the previous responses were good)


Chad
 
You've probably got other tracks conflicting with it. Try cutting a big, wide gouge at about 80 hz from the bass, guitar, and keys. The problem usually isn't with the kick. It's probably all the other stuff.
 
What is odd is that you never even mentioned compression. As Tex and others pointed out, that would be the most obvious solution to your problem.
 
Yo-triple M---------I'm definetely no recording expert-but I've been experimenting with my kick drum sound alot lately. My latest method-get a towel inside the kick drum-put it right up against the head-(I even put a piece of tape to hold it there).This will take the ring out of the skin and give you a nice thump. I put my kick mic(shure beta 52) inside the drum-between 6" and 12" away from the drum skin. When I mix this mic with my "ambient" mic ~10 ft or more in front of the set-I been getting a good sound. For what it's worth......I thought you used midi drums??

BTW-In the latest mix mag-they interview some big wigs on their drum methods-you should check it out--I remember one guy who in addition to the inside the drum mic-also put a mic on the other side of the drum-and put it out of phase and compressed it.sounded interesting.........


1 more thing-a good method I heard around here-is to start your mix with the bass drum fader at "0" and work everything else around it-this has saved me from the dreaded falling fader disease-
 
If the levels for your kick start clipping before the kick creates its place / volume in the track, you have a frequency problem, meaning your kick level incorporates a multitude of frequencies which just take up space, but are not effective.

The "natural" thing to do would be to boost low end but....... its likely that that's exactly the frequencies which make your track clip.

Stop thinking that a kick is just low end - it is NOT. Analyse the freqencies of some good sounding kicks and you will find one of the widest frequency bands of all instruments.

Therefore, to creat power, volume and sound - without clicking or pushing it - first cancel out the lowest frequencies which are not effective, then creat you midrange kick attack sound, then start adding bottem, carefully. You'll find you will end up with a kick plenty loud and effective, nowhere near clipping level.

I have tried every way of mic'ing kicks possible, but still get the best results from a simple D112, placed just outside the hole.
If the track warrents a super extended low end, like needed for some Hip-Hop tracks, I have made a wire mesh tube the diameter of a kick, about 3' deep. I place this in front of the kick and cover it with a thick down bed cover, then mic this with a U47 or a U89i.
I never use a seperate mic for atack, instead I normally position a snare bottem mic in a way to cover both snare and kick attack.

After all that - tuning the kick right, and playing it right, is still the best way to good sound.
Finally - opposite to many - I hardly ever use a compressor on the kick ---- if I work with a brilliant drummer. I do use it if the kick is to uneven in velocity.
 
what kind of mic/muffuling do you use? that will make a big change in the sound. i mic my kick with a beta 52. i put it on the bottom of the kick drum about 2" away from the back head. i use a aquairan super-kick drum head on the back and a plan remo w/t a muffuling ring on the front. all the togeher makes a great sound and you don't need to put in any kind of pillows.
 
TripleM said:
I've had problems where the kick drum is not coming through in the mix. I've turned up the levels, but it starts clipping before any good sound comes through. Here are some things I've done that have helped:

1. Give an EQ boost at 120 Hz or so
2. Duplicate the track
3. Put in a 20-30 msec delay
4. Add some reverb

What are your reactions to those approaches? What do you like? What don't you like? Do you have better ideas? Please let me know.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Try turning the other tracks down

Scott
 
A fun part of this learning process, is finding out what can or can not be done to 'fix it' in the mix.
Softer hits not only have less click, they have more low end. Solid hits are just the opposite. This was counter intuitive to me the first few times at trying to throw some eq and compression at a limp track.
So if that is the task at hand, let's see, we'll need a shit load of dynamic eq, (or maybe a multi-band compressor?), if you wern't going to gate, you might now 'cause the snare bleed is pumping in and out like crazy, and you wanted to put a compressor on it to beging with to get "that" sound. (At least that might still work on the strong hits.)
I had to learn this a few times befor it sank in.
As always, life is easier when the tracks sounds about right to begin with when you just -turn them up a bit.
:D
wayne
 
sorry if i didin' read it, but what mic are you using.


if you're using a D112 or something similar, you shouldn't have a hard time getting a good kick sound, providing it's positioned well. if you're needing to copy and mess around with your kick track so much, it may be worth checking out the dry track and seeing what's wrong. maybe you need to reconsider mic placement?
 
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