what FREQ do Bass and Guitar generally go on in the mix so they both have there space

[videodrone]

what FREQ do Bass and Guitar generally go on in the mix so they both have there space?

Do guitars sound better with bass generally with scooped mids and so on?

 

[chessrock]

It really depends a lot on the tone of the guitar and bass in question . . . as well as the style of music and so on. They all sound at least a little different, and thus require different strategies on this.

Very generally speaking, there are some general rules I'll follow. Here's an example:

Most electric guitars naturally have a scoop in the midrange, right around 1000 hz to 14000 hz (which is, subsequently, a good range to boost on the bass guitar if you need more definition out of it . . . there's a natural pocket there for it). They'll also have a higher-midrange peak somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 hz . . . depending on it's unique tone, it could be anywhere between 17000 to 26000, actually, but it's usually somewhere in that neighborhood.

They'll also tend to have a couple more peaks . . . one between 300 - 400 hz, as well as a bass peak somewhere in the 70 to 150 hz range. This is the range you should be concerned with, because that's where the bass guitar likes to hang out.

Ideally, you want the 6-string to have some action in that range. If you just cut it for the sake of giving the guitar some breathing room, it will wind up sounding thin and wimpy. Ideally, you want to try and dial in a guitar tone during the tracking phase that has some action in this range, yet doesn't conflict with the bass, which is tricky.

Let's say the bass is peaking out mostly around 100 hz, but also has some action going on around 159 hz. Now let's assume the electric guitar has it's bass peaks around 159 hz, also. In this instance, you might want to try cutting a little 159 on the bass, or better yet, multiband compress it at 159 hz.

Listen to it, and if it sounds okay that way, then go with it. You've just opened up some breathing room for the guitar without sacrificing the bass sound or having to make the guitar sound wimpy. That's a best-case scenario.

Worst-case scenario might have both the bass and guitar fighting for the exact same frequencies at 100, 159, etc.

This should be a sure sign that you did a bad job tracking. Really, you should be listening for this stuff while you track. If it sounds like there's a lot of mud, or you can't distinguish the bass from the guitar while tracking, then you need to experiment . . . try a different pickup, change the mic position, fiddle with the amp tone . . . whatever you have to do. Otherwise, you force yourself in to unnecessarily difficult situations come mixdown time.

 

[videodrone]

thanks Chess! I actually just wrote all that down so I can start studying it,

Any other senerios or tips would be great!

also has far as the tracking stage goes, is the tracking stage considered when you first break out the guitar and are getting your signals levels and so on? the steps before you actually record?

So in tracking stage, do I tweak guitar and than bass, or do I tweak guitar and record, and than pick up bass and tweak that for levels and record that than,

Or do I Record samples of both till I have a good combination with both, and than do all my recording when I already have everything figured out?

What steps do you record in?

 

[chessrock]

Or do I Record samples of both till I have a good combination with both, and than do all my recording when I already have everything figured out?

What steps do you record in?

What you're really talking about is called pre-production, and it's a great idea.

In a perfect world where the client / talent understands the importance of pre-production, this step can and will go a long way towards making a professional-sounding finished product. And in the long run, it will save the client money, because it will ultimately consume less time getting it right in the first place then trying to fix it come mixdown, which is a hit-or-miss proposition.

The best-case scenario involves going through a few tunes as if it were a real session, then sitting down with what you have, and going through it with a fine-tooth comb, picking out what you like about it and what you don't like.

If, at this stage, you're not hearing separation between the bass and guitar, try fiddling with it a little, and if you can't seem to get it right with minimal corrective EQ, then it's time to examine what is causing the problems. And yes, pull out the spectral analyzer and see where the bass action is going on with the guitars and bass, and see where there might be conflicts. Most likely, you'll find some.

If you find no conflicts, visually, using the spectral analyzer, and you like the tone of both instruments, but you're still hearing conflict, then try things like boosting 1100 hz on the guitar (gives it a real gnarly, mid-rangy tone) and/or 800 hz on the bass. For a little more crunch/presence on guitar, definitely boost around 2000 hz or so, or try cutting at 350 hz to remove a little mud.

If none of that works, then it's probably time to look at the arrangement. See what happens when playing the same chords in a different position on the fret board . . . or even more drastic things like playing it in another octave altogether. Try different effects. And as a last resort, you might even try pulling out the POD.