What Does A Tube Overdrive REALLY Do?

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stevieb

Just another guy, really.
I wonder if so-called "Tube Overdrives" or "Tube Screamers" are really all that different from other distortion pedals.

As I own several tube amps (Silverface Fender Deluxe Reverb, Silverface Fender Pro Reverb '78, Monkey-Wards Model 6000), I would want a distortion pedal named "Tube Something" to drive the tubes into that warm, "brown" distortion we all love so much, when the amp is less than cranked. But comparing a Boss DS-1, a Ibenez TS-9, and a Digitech MetalMaster, I think they all do pretty much the same thing- which I suspect is simply to dirty up the signal BEFORE it gets to the amp. Sure, they sound different, but not all THAT different, after you either aurally/mentally listen thru the noise, or tweek the knobs so they all make closer to the same sound. Oh, before I forget- the Monkey-Wards does NOT need any help distorting- how I wish it did, that cheap but interesting thing distorts when it's volume is half-way up. Everyone should own one of those near-POS amps- occasionally they come in handy.

Thing is, I don't REALLY know what they do- and I don't know that on many different levels:

First and last, how anything SOUNDS is most important, so I don't want to get only lengthly, technical expositions filled with buzz-speak and weazel words- first, I'd like to know what the END RESULTS of each of those pedals is.

Second, I'd like to know if any of them, or other reasonably-priced pedals (I am not going to pay $100 for a pedal, EVER, unless it offers me a cigarette after we have had our fun...) actually DO overdrive the tubes in such a way as to give me that warm/brown sound at less than cranked levels.

Third, sure- give me the long technical explanation, if for no other reason than to show all the rest of us how smart you are. While you pretend to be oh-so-much-smarter than the rest of us, we will pretend to listen.

And finally, perhaps I am asking the wrong things of a distortion pedal? I know an attenuator will make the amp "think" it is playing loud, when in fact most of that energy is being absorbed by the attenuator while the speaker is producing SPL's that our ears can live with. So, is an attenuator what I REALLY need, or can a budget-priced distortion pedal help me? (Oh, and keep all the "you gotta spend the big bux like I did/on the gold-plated pedals I build" post. Seen 'em- YOU guys are no help whatsoever.) I know the difference between a true attenuator and those silly volume controls that sell for $10 on ebay, too- although if one of the SVC's really DOES work, by all means, do tell me about it.

Or do I need to buy a Princeton or Champ?:)
 
stevieb said:
I wonder if so-called "Tube Overdrives" or "Tube Screamers" are really all that different from other distortion pedals.
Click to expand...

IMO pretty much any and all OD pedals produce a different sound to any and all Distortion pedals; I don't think these terms are synonomous with one another, and when you add 'Fuzz' or 'Boost' things get a little hazey!
 
An overdrive pedal just adds a little dirt to the signal and allows you to boost the level in an effort to drive the preamp of your amp harder. All of them sound a little different, some are brighter than others, but that is what an overdrive does. You would use it if you are getting the sound you want out of the amp, but you just need a little more gain to push it over the edge. For instance, you would kick it on during a lead to get a little more sustain, and kick it off to get your cruncy rhythm sound. If you plug an overdrive pedal into a clean amp with the drive all the way up and the gain set to unity, you will get a crunch-type sound.

BTW a tube sceamer has no tubes in it, it is designed to make the tubes in your amp 'scream'.

A distortion box is designed to be used as the primary source of distortion. You could plug this into a clean amp and get all the distortion you would ever need. Most are solid state. Back in the day, we all used to use the boss DS-1 in from of our Marshalls, but we cranked up the output and left the distortion control very low. (effectively turning it into an overdrive) The reason was becasue, if you had a bright JCM800, a tube screamer would make it peel the paint off the walls. The DS-1 had a darker tone.

It sounds like you are getting the sound you want out of your amps, you just need a little bosst to drive them more. I would recommend an overdrive. I like the turbo tube screamer because it isn't a one-trick-pony. Since you have several different amps, you may need a different type of overdrive for each one.
 
amp jacking off

I've used the boss ds-1 super overdrive to... drive my fender silverface at lower volume with pretty good results. It doesn't sound exactly like a twin reverb fully cranked, but it does a good job if you can't have your amp jacking off up at the 9s & 10s all the time, we all have neighbours don't we?? :confused:
 
stevieb said:
Third, sure- give me the long technical explanation, if for no other reason than to show all the rest of us how smart you are. While you pretend to be oh-so-much-smarter than the rest of us, we will pretend to listen.
Click to expand...

For the record, I always like learning stuff from people who know more than me, no matter how 'technical' it is. I feel lucky to come to a place where so many people with way more expertise than me are willing to share it for free!:D
 
yep, and cheaply too. its like a 55 dollar pedal. The DS-1
 
stevieb said:
I wonder if so-called "Tube Overdrives" or "Tube Screamers" are really all that different from other distortion pedals.
Click to expand...

Man, OVERDRIVE and DISTORTION are completely different things.

I read too many reviews on musiciansfriend and alike when people are giving bad reviews to TS7/TS9 coz "ZOMG it SUCKS!! It doesn't give me that Metallica tone! Don't buy it!!! AAaaaa!!!"

:confused:

Like Farview said, OD gives just a little dirt to your tone. I use my tubescreamer for a couple of my rhythm based songs which are more punk than anything.

Distortion is everything you hear in metal world. In a nutshell -

https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0s0MXX084U&feature=related
OVERDRIVE

https://youtube.com/watch?v=N1DFiqkEBcc&feature=related
DISTORTION
 
I'd say that if a DS-1 and a TS-9 sound the same to you ..... then pedals aren't the way to go for you.
The DS-1 is about the nastiest worst sounding distortion ever made in the history of distortions while the TS-9 is a pretty nice sounding usable pedal.
They sound so completely different that I feel sure you're wanting to crank that distortion level and let it fuzz on out and that's the last thing you want to do with a pedal.
I use a Tubescreamer, and old Tubeworks pedal and a metal zone and I have the gain (distortion) on all three on zero .... the absolute least possible distortion from them. Most experienced players will use them in a live setting with the gain WAY down like that usually.
 
Lt. Bob said:
... and a metal zone and I have the gain (distortion) on all three on zero .... the absolute least possible distortion from them. Most experienced players will use them in a live setting with the gain WAY down like that usually.
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Way true, my distortion level on Metalzone is at about 9 o'clock, plus my chorus soaks extra gain from it to make a more "round" sound.
 
Lt. Bob said:
I'd say that if a DS-1 and a TS-9 sound the same to you ..... then pedals aren't the way to go for you.
The DS-1 is about the nastiest worst sounding distortion ever made in the history of distortions while the TS-9 is a pretty nice sounding usable pedal.
Click to expand...

I have the DS-1 and a TS-9. it is not that one is good and one is bad. The DS-1 when dialed in right imparts classic distortion sounds. Like an older MXR distortion plus (but a bit more harsh.) I like this pedal for picking solo sounds, not chords.

the TS-9 amps up the signal and also has a gain that allows you to put extra dirt in it. To my ears this pedal is at its best when the gain is kept a bit lower, volume higher and it is used to drive the amp. Once that gain knob goes past 12:00, for me, it starts sounding like any other distortion pedal.

They are both fine pedals. I even like the cheaper TS-7.

They are all made better with mods from analogman mike or robert keeley, but they are perfectly usable as stock pedals.
 
Okay, I think I have found my OD master.

Seriously, you have done much to answer my questions. that vid you marked Overdrive is about the best- the guy actually communicates and teaches, and keeps his playing simple and direct so that the lesson comes thru, rather than just showing off his mad chops. I esp. like that he uses an amp very similar to mine. Thanks for that link.

The pedal I have and like most is actually a later-model Ibenez TS-7, that has the little slide switch with TS9 and HOT positions. I never said the DS1 and the TS-9 SOUND alike to me- I said I susupected they did basically the same thing- dirty up the signal before it gets to the amp. Sorry about the confusion, I shouldda taken a look at it before I posted.

When I want some "dirt," I am usually playing blues rythm guitar, or lead harmonica, thru a Fender Pro Reverb or Fender Deluxe Reverb, both ;78 models. I occasionally play a bit of blues lead thru the same amp(s). I am NOT playing ANY metal, or thrash. Geez, from a musical standpoint, rap/hip hop (when it is not about killin' ho's or such crap) is actually better music. I do like the sound of the Ibanez much more than the Boss.

One question remains, at least in my head- do any of these actually push the tubes into their own overdrive territory, or do they simply send the amp a dirtier signal?

Okay, two questions- would an attenuator be better for me? Or a Champ?

Mish said:
Man, OVERDRIVE and DISTORTION are completely different things.

I read too many reviews on musiciansfriend and alike when people are giving bad reviews to TS7/TS9 coz "ZOMG it SUCKS!! It doesn't give me that Metallica tone! Don't buy it!!! AAaaaa!!!"

:confused:

Like Farview said, OD gives just a little dirt to your tone. I use my tubescreamer for a couple of my rhythm based songs which are more punk than anything.

Distortion is everything you hear in metal world. In a nutshell -

https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0s0MXX084U&feature=related
OVERDRIVE

https://youtube.com/watch?v=N1DFiqkEBcc&feature=related
DISTORTION
Click to expand...
 
stevieb said:
One question remains, at least in my head- do any of these actually push the tubes into their own overdrive territory, or do they simply send the amp a dirtier signal?
Click to expand...
No ...... they send a hotter driving signal to the preamp but the only way for power tubes to actually 'overdrive' is for them to actually put out the wattage that brings them to an overdriven state ..... thus, the only real way to truly get power tube overdrive would be an attenuator.
 
stevieb said:
Okay, I think I have found my OD master.

Seriously, you have done much to answer my questions. that vid you marked Overdrive is about the best- the guy actually communicates and teaches, and keeps his playing simple and direct so that the lesson comes thru, rather than just showing off his mad chops. I esp. like that he uses an amp very similar to mine. Thanks for that link.
Click to expand...

Glad I could help. Been there done that - had no idea what was the difference between two and almost wasted my money on OD-3. I was lucky there was a guy in a music store who told me the difference and recommended MT-2 instead.

stevieb said:
I am NOT playing ANY metal, or thrash. Geez, from a musical standpoint, rap/hip hop (when it is not about killin' ho's or such crap) is actually better music.
Click to expand...

Not all metal is about killin' dragons and hunting zombies either ;) . I love my rap, I love my metal - there's good music in about every genre (except grunge. Grunge sucks full-stop :D )
 
Opinions are like assholes. Ev'ryones got one, just some stink up joint more than others.
 
stevieb said:
One question remains, at least in my head- do any of these actually push the tubes into their own overdrive territory, or do they simply send the amp a dirtier signal?
Click to expand...
It depends how you set it. If you have the 'drive' all the way down and the 'level' all the way up, you are just turning the guitar signal up to push the preamp tubes in your amp harder. If you leave the 'level' alone and crank the 'drive' you are sending a slightly distorted signal into the amp, and the amp is essentially doing exactly what it always was.

stevieb said:
Okay, two questions- would an attenuator be better for me? Or a Champ?
Click to expand...
This will depend on what you need more of: preamp distortion or power amp distortion. Overdrive pedals will only push the preamp harder. If that is the sound you want, that is the answer.

If you need the power amp to distort more, the only way to do that is to turn the amp up and use an attenuator.
 
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