what bands are using V-Drum, and what band are real drum!?

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fakeness

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since so many band recording their drum with V-Drum or Midi drum
doesn anyone know what "famous" band fake their drum with V-drum or midi?
and tell people they record with real drum.... :mad:
 
The Thrice album "Artist And The Ambulance" doesn't use drum triggers. You can tell cuz the drums aren't perfect (little slop in some double kick and rolls...and when I say a little, I mean I'm looking at this WAY too analy). Most triggered drums are used basically to line things up more perfectly since most professionals own better equipment than we'll ever see and have their own drum techs. It also helps that Andy Wallace mixed that album and was able to get the drums full enough were you don't need triggers to cut threw the thick guitars etc.
 
fakeness said:
since so many band recording their drum with V-Drum or Midi drum
doesn anyone know what "famous" band fake their drum with V-drum or midi?
and tell people they record with real drum.... :mad:
Click to expand...

One of the king crimson albums I did we used V-drums. I loved the music but hated having to work with the V-drums which sounded really bad to me.
 
tsl92802 said:
Most triggered drums are used basically to line things up more perfectly since most professionals own better equipment than we'll ever see and have their own drum techs.
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Actually triggers are normally used to fill out the sound of a drum or make the dynamics of the performance more consistant. Editing lines them up.

tsl92802 said:
It also helps that Andy Wallace mixed that album and was able to get the drums full enough were you don't need triggers to cut threw the thick guitars etc.
Click to expand...

Are you sure that he did not use triggers? I am not saying its a bad thing if he did because I love the way his records sound. He is one of my idols. Did you ever notice that Nirvana's nevermind album was part recorded in a big LA studio and part recorded in an 8 track studio in Wisconsin and the Drum sound is the same through out the album?

These days with big rock records, triggers are use a ton. I would almost guess about half the time. I even do it on some of the records I mix. Most engineers are not embarased to admit it, because much of the sound of modern rock is the sound of consistant triggered drums blended in with the real sound.
 
so Micophone recording is NO USE?

Trigger is so much easier....
and better quality
i am now very worry....
is there any "TRUE recording (without trigger) drum"?
or that mircophone recording can never reach the quality of trigger?
is that why 70's drum sounds so crappy? and 80's sound so fake?
is that means it's impossible to record a 90's drum with real mic?
------_________-------......i should have buy trigger instead of microphone
 
starting to feel militant

hello triggers...sucking the life out of rock

what is all this crap about triggers sounding better..I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!

whatever happened to micing tecnique? whatever happened to recording guitars through an amp instead of pod or some other crap? WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BANDS THAT COULD PLAY THEIR OWN SONGS WITHOUT PRERECORDED BACKING TRACKS?!

sacrificed for these supposed improvements in sonic clarity...i have a strong dislike for these current production trends, and the fact that it doesn't seem to bother most people...we're one step away from milli vanilli here people

if you want to hear real drums pick up something from the steve albini catalogue...like Nirvana - In Utero, Bush - Razorblade Suitcase, Veruca Salt - Blow it Out Your Ass...to hear triggered drums you need but to turn on your radio
 
I'm fully for real drums. Drum machiens and triggers are great for drum machine adn triggered parts. I played with the Drumagog demo and while it sould be useful to save something that you just can't retrack... I'd rather retrack.

I like humans playing music on instruments.
 
There are still plenty of good recordings on well tuned, properly mic'd drums that do not use triggers. I do not have a problem with e-drums (or triggers), whatever ges the best recorded sound. However, I still love the sound of a well tuned kit (I've spent close to 40 years tryig to learn to tune - and every drum and every room requires something different.

The reason 70's & 80's drums sounded so bad was that drummers were plaiyng single headed drums and waaaaay too many engineers were putting waaaaaay too much dampening on the drums. I recall some 70's sessions where I could barely find a spot to hit the head cause the engineer had covered most of the head with foam.
 
hey...i happen to like some of the drums on records from the 70's...

but hey, i'm more of a plug and play kind of guy...screw the fidelity as long as the energy is there and the song is happening...

drummers don't always hit the same everytime...and i appreciate that, so why use a trigger to smooth it out and make it more consistent when that is not an accurate representation of how a person plays...?
 
<< so why use a trigger to smooth it out and make it more consistent when that is not an accurate representation of how a person plays...? >>

because when you're recording an album that you hope to sell millions of copies of, you want consistency in the mix. so you either need a drummer who doesn't SUCK (and can play consistently and hit every snare beat like the last), or you need something else to even the sound out. triggers help achieve that.

if you've spent any time at all recording or mixing drums, you'll know what a tremendous pain in the ass it is trying to balance a drum track when you've got some wookie with no concept of technique behind the kit bashing away inconsistently. blech.

and i guess your "idea" of what the point behind the studio is is different than mine. if someone wants their session to be "accurate to how they sound", i'm usually perfectly happy to do that. however, "accurate to how they sound" is NOT always equal to "sounds good". and IMO, that's the job of the studio--to make the finished product sound as GOOD as possible. to that extent, triggers, overdubs, creative cut/paste point and drool editing, composite vocal tracks, PODs, buried "hidden" tracks (think cowbell), etc., are all part of "making it sound good".

i sure don't want my name associated with shitty sounding recordings....and if a doofus with a raggedyass kit with duct-taped heads comes in, you bet that triggers (or Drumagog or something else "artificial") will be in order.


wade
 
todays platinum hits are tomorrows shitty sounding recordings...

i guess i still feel that an album is at least in part an advertisement for a live performance...and then what you're doing amounts to false advertising...but whatever..round and round we go, eh...

maybe i have too much punk background...but i think if you have a shitty drummer, you should embrace it, not try to hide it...if you want a good drummer, get a good drummer

I guess i also have no interest in having my music on the radio, being signed to a major label, or having astronomical sales figures...i'm all about the full on cathartic release of a good live performance, and my cd's are just a little reminder for you to take home, so you never forget the connection we felt...

and i know, in the music industry of today, that makes me a freak...
 
Uh

Les Paul was playing with pre-recorded backing tracks in like the 40's. He would just stand on stage and pretend to play guitar while a recording of him playing like 5 overdubbed guitar parts was played. I think his woman would lip sync too.

If the backing tracks were written and recording by the person that is pretending to play them, I really don't care.
 
a freak? well, i can't attest to that :D, but i definitely hear where you're coming from.

the band i'm in is a rock band (and i play drums, guitar and mandolin in said band), and we would prolly be labelled as a jam band, since we're not afraid to rock out a 10+ minute tune. we don't really like the idea of being called a "jam band", but hey, if it gives someone a frame of reference as to what to expect....

....anyway, we're ALL ABOUT the "live performance" aspect of our music. that's what we do best and our recordings tend to reflect that. but we DO want them to sound as good as possible. we DO record our "studio" stuff to a click track and do overdubs, etc. does the emotion and feeling get lost in it? no. why not? b/c we're careful about that sort of thing and make sure it's NOT lost.

my personal, side-project stuff, though, is all about exploration and experimentation. i play a variety of instruments and am another one of those "one man band" things. there's NO WAY i could ever perform these songs on my own in public--at least, not in the way they go down on cd--i'd need a band, and i don't want a band. so from that standpoint, the "cd is an advertisement for the live performance" perspective that you have is something that i couldn't possibly achieve.


neither my band nor my personal stuff will ever see a major label, indie label, or national release, although it's already seen the radio here in Charlottesville. but that doesn't mean that i don't have "quality" in mind in both cases. nothing quite like hearing one of your tunes or mixes on the radio.


it's all about your frame of reference. if you want your recordings to have that "live, recorded in one room in one take with a shitty drummer and no overdubs" vibe, then by all means go for it. in some genres (punk especially), that's expected.....and a polished, Nashville-sounding album wouldn't fly in the punk world. in some genres (say, pop country), the low-fi punk sound wouldn't even get the time of day. you really have to mix to your genre to some extent, and when you record a lot of different music, you have to keep an open mind.


although, really, if i were playing with a shitty drummer.....he wouldn't get embraced....he'd get my boot in his ass and would be looking for a new gig! life's too short to play with shitty drummers (let alone cokehead guitarists). :D


cheers,
wade
 
good call, i totally agree with the mix to your genre comment...

i guess where it gets sticky for me is where i hear what should be rock music being totally glossed over and mixed like disposable bubblegum pop...

like i said in a different post...linkin park sounds like britney spears with louder guitars
 
fakeness said:
Trigger is so much easier....
and better quality
i am now very worry....
is there any "TRUE recording (without trigger) drum"?
or that mircophone recording can never reach the quality of trigger?
is that why 70's drum sounds so crappy? and 80's sound so fake?
is that means it's impossible to record a 90's drum with real mic?
------_________-------......i should have buy trigger instead of microphone
Click to expand...

I personally like the crappy 70's drum sounds better than todays stuff. All the drums on most albums out now are just way to bright and overpowering.
 
mrface2112 said:
<< so why use a trigger to smooth it out and make it more consistent when that is not an accurate representation of how a person plays...? >>

because when you're recording an album that you hope to sell millions of copies of, you want consistency in the mix. so you either need a drummer who doesn't SUCK (and can play consistently and hit every snare beat like the last), or you need something else to even the sound out. triggers help achieve that.

if you've spent any time at all recording or mixing drums, you'll know what a tremendous pain in the ass it is trying to balance a drum track when you've got some wookie with no concept of technique behind the kit bashing away inconsistently. blech.

and i guess your "idea" of what the point behind the studio is is different than mine. if someone wants their session to be "accurate to how they sound", i'm usually perfectly happy to do that. however, "accurate to how they sound" is NOT always equal to "sounds good". and IMO, that's the job of the studio--to make the finished product sound as GOOD as possible. to that extent, triggers, overdubs, creative cut/paste point and drool editing, composite vocal tracks, PODs, buried "hidden" tracks (think cowbell), etc., are all part of "making it sound good".

i sure don't want my name associated with shitty sounding recordings....and if a doofus with a raggedyass kit with duct-taped heads comes in, you bet that triggers (or Drumagog or something else "artificial") will be in order.


wade
Click to expand...





Actually, you can save thousands by just eliminating the drummer permanently and use a "DRUM MACHINE".


Check mate.... I Win.

Britney Spears, Flag Waving, McDonalds, Gnutella, Triggers, Bush, PoD, Bob Rock, Burger King, Technique behind the kit, War in Iraq, Compressors.


People who usually prefer "Slick" perfect recordings are the ones who are downloading+distributing all those MP3's as well.


Again, "DRUM MACHINE". Check Mate... I WIN.
 
I believe Rush uses half real drums and half V-drums, Well live anyway I don't know about the studio if the V-drums are being used anymore.
 
First, it's not hard to make a DW kit sound great in a studio...which is why I think triggers are used more often to fix problems. When everything is midi, it's easy to line it up to a grid and just put a humanizer filter on it so it doesn't so TOO perfect. Second, I didn't mean to say all of Andy Wallace's recording were not triggered. That's probably impossible since Andy Wallace doesn't record everything he mixes himself. I think the idea of triggers (except for electronic drum parts) are lame. A good drummer ,behind a good set, that's mic'ed properly and mixed well is the only way anything should be done. I'm all for technology advancing music...but not replacing it...which is what triggers essentially are. It especially does not make sense to me when professional drummers are using triggers. Let's say my MIDI senario is wrong, and the triggers are used just to fill in tones and even out hits. Shouldn't the drummer/drum set be good enough at that already without having to hide it behind midi? I might be crazy, but nothing will ever sound better than real drums IMO.
 
tsl92802 said:
A good drummer ,behind a good set, that's mic'ed properly and mixed well is the only way anything should be done. I'm all for technology advancing music...but not replacing it...which is what triggers essentially are. It especially does not make sense to me when professional drummers are using triggers. Let's say my MIDI senario is wrong, and the triggers are used just to fill in tones and even out hits. Shouldn't the drummer/drum set be good enough at that already without having to hide it behind midi? I might be crazy, but nothing will ever sound better than real drums IMO.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with you. Its pretty rare that I trigger drums in the mix on records that I recorded, but about half my living is mixing records that other guys have tracked, and you would be amazed at how bad some engineers can screw up drum sounds. At the end of the day no one wants a disclaimer on a record that says "sorry the drum sound sucks, we had a shitty engineer", they only care that the record sound great and that the drummer sounds great. My job as a mixer is to make the band and the drummer look great.

Usually I do not have to "replace" a drum but if the kick is really muddy, adding a little bit of a bright sample can help it cut through the guitars, or if the kick sounds like rim shot, I can add a little bottom to round it out.

Another problem is that since so many records these days have triggered drums, that is the sound that people want. They will tell me they want me to mix the drums so the kick is as punchy as "insert big rock record here" and the track they have given me, the kick sounds like a pillow.
 
I've found that generally an exciter can fix a lot of the problems you just mentioned (not enough click/boom/balls). I had a snare that was so bad I basically had to completely deaden it which basically took the life away. But some reverb, an exicter and compressor got it sounding pretty decent, and really surprised the drummer with how it sounded.
 
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