What are pre amps?

[Mongoo]

I'm trying to figure out what I want. A Digital Multitrack or a Computer based multitrack.

I asked about this else where and some one said they would get the computer one because other wise you can not bypass the pre amps of the recorder. What are pre amps?

What I really need is a digital recorder that will record a ablolute minimum of 8 tracks at the same time. I "THINK" I want as many xlr connections as possible. Some recorders I've looked at don't give you that many. Instead they give you balanced TRS connections. What can you do with "balanced TRS connections"?

If I need to record a drum set can I do that with "balanced TRS conections"? Would it be the same as useing XLR's? And where do Pre-amps and phantom power fit into all of this? Needless to say I'm confused.

I hate to make this even more confusing but I was told you could get a computer and hook up conections and a mixing board to it. That would work to edit sound going it on the first take but wouldn't it be impossible to edit the music with the nobs and stuff post recording? My reason to go the non computer route with all of this is to have tangable adjusters.


Anyways. I appreciate all of your help. Thanks in advance.

Mongoo

 

[c7sus]

Preamps raise mic level to line level, which is what any medium wants to see.

With TRS balanced connectors you can run the outputs of your preamps into those inputs at LINE LEVEL.

Any decent pre, and any decent mixer for that matter, will have phantom power, supplied through XLR mic in jacks.

One thing you don't wanna do is put phantom power on TRS plugs. That's just asking for trouble.

Another solution instead of a mixer is a control surface, which is a piece of hardware that allows you to adjust software parameters with knobs and faders.

But mixers are really handy for patching stuff for monitoring, and I'm not sure if there are any control surface pieces out there that have built-in preamps.

The most popular recording softwares allow you to adjust faders, panning, eq, etc with a mouse and plug-ins, and can also be automated.

Budget-wise, it's almost a toss-up between a mixer that would give you 8 channels of preamps and phantom, or a standalone 8-channel preamp with phantom.

Mixers are also really handy for patching compressors and other outboard FX. With a mixer you can put a touch of reverb on a vocal for the singer to hear, but send a dry signal to disc.

The problem you need to watch out for with standalone recording units is that some are designed so it's impossible to bypass the built-in pres. And on most of the standalones, the pres aren't all that spectacular to begin with.

I think most of the guys here would agree that PC-based recording offers the most OPTIONS in hardware and software, and is extremely flexible. MAC-based recording might be a bit more stable, but the hardware and software options are much more limited, and pretty spendy, too.

What kind of budget are you looking at? You'll get much more focused responses if guys know how much bread you have to throw at this.

Good luck!

 

[Mongoo]

Thanks c7sus,

I guess I'm willing to spend $1-3,000. I'm not saying I have that now, but I want to be as serious as I can. I've been playing music and writting songs for eight years and want to make a full time career out of it. I've been thinking alot of trying to create a studio so I can do everything myself. Ultimately I want to be able to make a professionaly sounding cd of my music thats worth listening to. But thats all just an idea. I'll settle for getting a better sound then the cheap anolog 4track I got now.

Some more questions...

1) You have to get pre amps 1 of 2 ways? 1)in the mixer and 2)standalone?

2) Can you give me some examples of each as far as brands and models?


3) Why don't you want to put pantom power in a TRS plugs? Will it damage something?

4) Is there no value in xlr inputes then? Is it best to run everything to a standalone pre-amp/mixer and then to the 1/4" (balanced) plugs provided by your recorder?

5) What are some examples of Digital Hard-disc recorders where you can and can not bypass their preamps.

6) One of my big concerns is after you've recorded all of your tracks, can you use a mixing board, control surface or both to edit your mix?

7) Do I need a PC or can I use a laptop for portability? Can I achieve protability if I have to lug a mixing board/control surface and a standalone pre-amp everywhere? Also would the laptop have to be dedicated to music or would I be risking sync issues and other problems by multitasking it with other computer uses?

8) What is Patching exactly?

Sorry about all the questions but I'm an inquisitive guy

Thanks again.

Mongoo

 

[c7sus]

1: Not exactly......... some of the AD/DA convertors for PC/MAC have phantom power and pres built into them, too. Ususually 2 channels, but there are some 8-channel pre/convertor combos as well. These are going to be XLR jacks, or maybe combo jacks.

2: There are probably hundreds of examples of mixers and standalone preamps.

I would suggest you find a few copies of Electronic Musician, maybe subscribe to TapeOp (free), and check out this link, and the other links it will lead you to:http://www.homerecording.com/recording.html

3: Putting phantom across TRS plugs can cause you to route voltages that are harmful to the entire rest of your signal path. The ONLY places you want phantom power running around are between a mic channel and a mic, or a mic channel and a phantom-powered DI box.

4: Standalone preamps offer the highest quality, short of buying vintage Neve or API desks that cost about as much as a single-family home. The other cool thing about standalones, is you can buy a little as one channel of a particular "flavor" pre, or buy as many channels of a pre as you wish.

Preamps can run anywhere from less than $100/channel to upwards of $1500/channel or more for true "pro grade" stuff.

5: I don't know specific answers to this question. I built my little studio here to run PC-based, because I thought the all-in-one recorders were limited, not only in preamp selection, but also editing and FX-wise as well. I prefer outboard to software-based FX, although the latest generation sw's and drivers have come a long way since I put my thing together in 99/2000.

I know some of the Roland standalones don't seem to have line inputs, if the guys posting about having problems patching an outboard pre into their rolands have been correct in assessing the problem.

6: The newer softwares have addressed a lot of the complaints folks have made over the years about editing. In fact, it's really the best advantage that PC/Mac-based recording solutions have over other formats. A control surface essentially replaces your mouse for most editing purposes, allows automation, and gives fingertip control in a familiar (mixer-type) format that most engineers are used to using.

7: You can use a PC or laptop, but you'll probably want outboard hard-drives. Dedicated audio computers are obviously gonna be more stable in that task than multi-use machines. But if you use partitions or Master/Slave drives multi-tasking shouldn't be a big concern.

A small (16-channel) mixer isn't too big to take to a gig. The lower-end control surfaces are about the same size or smaller. This stuff is all really pretty portable if you have rack cases.

If you're buying a new computer for this, XP PRO is highly recommended as the most stable and adaptable OS.

8: Patching is just plugging one piece of gear into another. A guitar to a DI box, a reverb unit to an Aux send/receive, and so on.

Keep reading and following posts on the BBS that look like they may pertain to your questions. There's so much great information here but the search function is less than ideal, and it takes a while to wade through stuff to find some of the answers.

Good Luck!