What are "Channel Inserts?"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Luca Brasi
  • Start date Start date
Luca Brasi

Luca Brasi

New member
I have an older Nady 12 channel stereo mixer, the SRM12. It did not come with a manual and I cannot find a copy of one on the net, I even asked in the Mixer Forum here.

On the top of the mixer board are the normal Main Outs (L&R, 1/4" jacks). However on the back side are two 1/4" jacks labeled channel inserts, 1 & 2. Can anyone tell me what these are for?

Thanks in advance.

Steve
 
Inserts are for connecting ourboard fx to that channel. If you have a nice compressor or a quadraverb or whatever, you connect it to the channel insert. You need an insert cable, it's 1/4" TRS on one end and has 2 1/4 phone plugs on the other. Your mixer has inserts only on channels 1 and 2.
 
suprstar said:
Inserts are for connecting ourboard fx to that channel. If you have a nice compressor or a quadraverb or whatever, you connect it to the channel insert. You need an insert cable, it's 1/4" TRS on one end and has 2 1/4 phone plugs on the other. Your mixer has inserts only on channels 1 and 2.
Click to expand...

Thanks Suprstar, but I'm still a bit confused. On the board, channels 1-4 have 1/4" balanced inputs as well as XLR inputs, while channels 4-8 each have two 1/4" inputs (L & R with L also labeled mono). All that is pretty self-explanatory. But I also have Aux Sends (1/4" mono, labeled 1 & 2), and Stereo Aux Returns (1/4" mono labeled L & R as well as 1 & 2).

What is the difference between the channel inserts and the Aux sends and returns? Wouldn't an outboard FX, say my guitar processor, go though the Aux ins and outs?

Thanks for your help.

Steve
 
Luca Brasi said:
What is the difference between the channel inserts and the Aux sends and returns?
Click to expand...
An aux send/return adds to the signal. An insert replaces the signal entirely.

For example, you use an aux send with a reverb unit. The original signal exists unaltered on it's original channel. The aux return adds the reverb to it.

Now say you use a channel insert with a reverb unit. The insert hijacks the channel's signal (usually before it hits the faders and EQ), sends it off to the reverb unit where it is processed, and returns only the reverb signal. The unprocessed signal is now nowhere in your mixing board.

Note that an effects unit becomes entirely "tied up" with a single channel when an insert is used. One effect unit works on one channel and that's it. Aux sends on the other hand can mix many signals into a single send so you can apply the effect to many channels.

Usually, an insert would sound quite odd with reverb. But inserts are the way to go with outboard EQ, compressors, gates, delays for distant PA speakers, or anything where you just can't have the original signal hanging around without ruining the processing you are trying to accomplish.


Wouldn't an outboard FX, say my guitar processor, go though the Aux ins and outs?
Steve
Click to expand...
I would put the guitar processor before the microphone for most projects. Just record the sound. But yes, most "effects" of the 'verb/phase/flange/chorus/delay variety are happy on an aux send.
 
Luca Brasi said:
What is the difference between the channel inserts and the Aux sends and returns? Wouldn't an outboard FX, say my guitar processor, go though the Aux ins and outs?

Thanks for your help.

Steve
Click to expand...

The main difference is that a channel insert is only for that ONE channel. On an aux send, you can send multiple channels to the aux. An insert is one, an aux is a bus. You could use an aux like an insert, IF you sent only one channel to that aux. You can then mix the aux return back wit the dry signal. A lot of board have an 'fx aux' that operate like this.

For example, you could have drums on channels 5,6,7, and 8, send them to a Eventide reverb unit. The return is 100% reverb signal, you mix the return back to the main bus, so you can effectively turn the reverb up and down - then you have a reverb on your whole drum kit. You could send your main and backup vox on channels 1,2,3 and 4 to aux2 with a alesis quadraverb connected, and add a delay and reverb to all your vox with one unit. Then you connect a compressor to the insert of you main vox on channel 1, and it only affects that vox channel.

Another way to use an aux is without using the return. Ie you just want to send the signals somewhere else. You could send a separate mix of all channels to aux1 for a monitor mix, and another separate mix of all channels to aux 2 that goes to your tape deck to make a board tape for the band. The aux mix is independent of the faders/main mix. A lot of times I'll use an aux to send to the subs. Even if all your faders and all the way down, the aux gets a signal at a level defined by the 'volume' the aux knob is set at. That's how the drummer can get more vox or whatever in his monitor without screwing with the FOH mix, or the singer's mix, etc.
 
Suprstar,

Many thanks for the primer! I've got it straight now! I appreciate you taking the time to explain in detail!

Steve
 
Inserts are useful also if you want to bypass the channel's internal preamp... for instance if you have a dedicated channel strip that you might want to use on a particular voice / instrument or whatever...

You use a standard 1/4 plug and only plug it partly in - bit of a balancing act but it works..

I do it all the time when I record to bypass the internal pres on my Yamaha AW machine when I have better preamps that I want to use...
 
Armistice said:
Inserts are useful also if you want to bypass the channel's internal preamp... for instance if you have a dedicated channel strip that you might want to use on a particular voice / instrument or whatever...

You use a standard 1/4 plug and only plug it partly in - bit of a balancing act but it works..

I do it all the time when I record to bypass the internal pres on my Yamaha AW machine when I have better preamps that I want to use...
Click to expand...

Not saying that you're wrong, but most inserts are post preamp, pre eq, pre fade. So if you have a microphone plugged into channel 1 on your mixer, then use the insert (first click) to send the signal somewhere else...you are using your mixer's preamp.

To bypass your mixers' preamp you would connect your microphone to your dedicated channel strip then send the output of that strip into the line in of your mixer.

And it is possible that I misunderstood your post. :eek::D
 
On a lot of mixers, if the channel has a preamp/gain AND a line-in, then line-in just just attenuated by some set amount of db's, so it's still going thru the preamp. Notice that the gain still adjusts the input gain on a line-in.

I've know you can 1/2-jack the inserts to use em as direct-outs, I've never heard of using em as 'direct-ins' so to speak... I'm not familiar enough with the physical circuitry, but I'd think it's possible, and Armistice sounds pretty matter-of-fact, so I beleive him.

In fact, I bet you could make a 'direct in' cable that has TRS on one end, and 1/4" TS on the other, wired up such that the input/ground on the trs end was connected to the TS side. (output not connected to anything).

Or could you just use a regular insert cable and connect the input to the output of your preamp? An insert cable is really just a direct-out + direct-in isn't it? The board prolly doesn't know or care that the insert's output is driving the input....
 
dastrick said:
most inserts are post preamp
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I'm not using a mixer, I'm using a standalone workstation - Yamaha AW4416 - and I'm not plugging the microphone into the channel on the standalone workstation, I'm plugging it into a separate independent preamp/channel strip, then taking the preamplified signal and inserting it, post preamp, into the standalone workstation, thus bypassing the AW4416's preamps...

But maybe this is a special case and the OP should probably ignore my comments... I haven't investigated how they work on an actual mixer...

:D
 
Thanks for all of your helpful insights. At this point I'm able to get a little use out of the channel inserts with a compressor, but that's about it for now. However, I'm glad to know what the channel inserts are for and for what they can do for me in the future.

Steve
 
Gain-based fx are usually inserts, such as: compressors, eq, gates etc.

Time-based fx are usually aux sends, such as: reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, phaser etc.
 
Philbagg... it's time to come clean with us... all these posts in the wee hours of the morning...

You're actually a vampire, aren't you? :laughings:

It's 2am in Eire, ain't it?

Another 4 or 5 hours before coffin time... :)
 
Armistice said:
Philbagg... it's time to come clean with us... all these posts in the wee hours of the morning...

You're actually a vampire, aren't you? :laughings:

It's 2am in Eire, ain't it?

Another 4 or 5 hours before coffin time... :)
Click to expand...

This time it's different.

I got drunk with the girlfriend... I've been out with my mates...

...and now, drunk, I come here to unleash my knowledge and my hatred upon you all, in their respective forums :laughings:

I love how you care so much for me :D

Actually, it's 3am, and considering it's almost the summer solstice, it'd be about an hour (maybe less) til coffin time ;)
 
It's because you're Irish philbagg... :eek:

Irish people are so much fun. We have a couple at work that we keep in a cage and let out for parties... :)

You can't really be drunk... your spelling and grammar are too good.

Thishh si wot drumk peep;le type likeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

And dude... where's your girlfriend? I know when I come home with (the recently ex) girlfriend and we're both "elevated", I'm not on the internet solving recording issues for strangers... :D

Avagoodweegend as we say in Ozstraya and I'm sure we'll cross paths again next week...
 
suprstar said:
On a lot of mixers, if the channel has a preamp/gain AND a line-in, then line-in just just attenuated by some set amount of db's, so it's still going thru the preamp. Notice that the gain still adjusts the input gain on a line-in.

I've know you can 1/2-jack the inserts to use em as direct-outs, I've never heard of using em as 'direct-ins' so to speak... I'm not familiar enough with the physical circuitry, but I'd think it's possible, and Armistice sounds pretty matter-of-fact, so I beleive him.

In fact, I bet you could make a 'direct in' cable that has TRS on one end, and 1/4" TS on the other, wired up such that the input/ground on the trs end was connected to the TS side. (output not connected to anything).

Or could you just use a regular insert cable and connect the input to the output of your preamp? An insert cable is really just a direct-out + direct-in isn't it? The board prolly doesn't know or care that the insert's output is driving the input....
Click to expand...

Armistice said:
Exactly.

I'm not using a mixer, I'm using a standalone workstation - Yamaha AW4416 - and I'm not plugging the microphone into the channel on the standalone workstation, I'm plugging it into a separate independent preamp/channel strip, then taking the preamplified signal and inserting it, post preamp, into the standalone workstation, thus bypassing the AW4416's preamps...

But maybe this is a special case and the OP should probably ignore my comments... I haven't investigated how they work on an actual mixer...

:D
Click to expand...



Well I've never thought about that. I'll put that in my bag of tricks. Thanks for straigtening me out.


<writes on chalk board 100 times>
I will never doubt Armitice again.
I will never doubt Armitice again.
I will never doubt Armitice again.
I will never doubt Armitice again.
I will never doubt Armitice again.
I will never doubt Armitice again.
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
Armistice said:
Irish people are so much fun.
Click to expand...

Damn fuckin straight we are :D The aussies kick ass too :)

We have a couple at work that we keep in a cage and let out for parties... :)
Click to expand...

I just hope you left beer in that cage :drunk:

You can't really be drunk... your spelling and grammar are too good.
Click to expand...

Actually, when I'm drunk, I still make a special effort to type correctly (my speech on the other hand..... :p)

And dude... where's your girlfriend? I know when I come home with (the recently ex) girlfriend and we're both "elevated", I'm not on the internet solving recording issues for strangers... :D
Click to expand...

She had to go home. She's in the middle of exams n shizz :( I'm not THAT weird :D

Avagoodweegend as we say in Ozstraya and I'm sure we'll cross paths again next week...
Click to expand...

Yes, yes we will! :drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk:
 
dastrick said:
Not saying that you're wrong, but most inserts are post preamp, pre eq, pre fade. So if you have a microphone plugged into channel 1 on your mixer, then use the insert (first click) to send the signal somewhere else...you are using your mixer's preamp.
Click to expand...
you seemed to misunderstood :) the very fact that the inserts are post preamp leaves the possibility to plug a channel strip into the insert while having the mic plugged into the channel strip and not the on bord pres.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top