What Am I Missing for Large D Dynamics?

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soundchaser59

Reluctant Commander
I have been looking for one more large diaphragm dynamic to compliment my RE20. Note that the RE20 I have is NOT a neodymium element. And I am glad..... Neodym is what I am trying to avoid.

I have researched the MD421 which I am still not sure whether it is neodym or not. Also the Heil PR series, but all are neodym....although I am still tempted to try one, probably the PR40. I have a used EV ND868 which has a large element (kick drum mic?) but it is, unfortunately neodym also (hence the "ND" in the model number). Even the SM7b is a neodym mic, which I found to be very depressing since I was absolutely dieing to try one.

So what are the other large diaphragm dynamic mics that are not neodym? Why so few of them? Why are they so hard to find? Why are all the makers turning to neodym? It's nice to have a hotter signal on stage, but imo neodym sucks for recording, even at home.

In the absence of largest diaphragm dynamics, what would be the next largest ones? I had a el cheapo AKG D770 once that I put on the back of an open back guitar cab, and I realized after I sold it that it actually was a great mic for that purpose. Wish I had it back. The RE20 is awesome on guitar cab. The ribbons are great on guitar cab. But what am I overlooking?
 
What I have been useing instead of a Large diaphram Dynamic for My Bass drum is a Home made SubKick, It Really Picks up the Low end thump that no other Mic I have tried for the bass drum has , and it also sounds pretty good on Bass cabnets....
It is really Cheap to make and sounds REALLY good , I made mine out of a 6 in subwoofer wired backwords through a 1/10 audio transformer (to bring up the Impedance of the speaker from 8r to 80r) and connected through an XLR jack...I mounted mine inside a 8in Tom and mounted it with elastic Bands like a shockmount and mounted the XLR to the Drum and mounted the Mic/Drum on a stand and Positioned it right in front of the Hole on my Bass drum....

Just a thought....Cheers
 
Where did you hear the SM7 was ND? I think that's only true of the Betas; certainly the SM7 doesn't have the sensitivity to indicate that it's ND. It is quite a lot older than the Betas, and to my knowledge the cartridge has never been changed.

More importantly, if the SM7 has been used for many years by many, many professional engineers, why do you care if it's ND?
 
mshilarious said:
Where did you hear the SM7 was ND? I think that's only true of the Betas; certainly the SM7 doesn't have the sensitivity to indicate that it's ND. It is quite a lot older than the Betas, and to my knowledge the cartridge has never been changed.

More importantly, if the SM7 has been used for many years by many, many professional engineers, why do you care if it's ND?
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My post mentions the "SM7b" where the "b" means Beta, which means neodymium element.

I have never had enough $$$$$ in Paypal to afford a real old fashioned SM7, assuming I can even find one, and the SM7b runs about $350-400 bucks as it is....more than I'm willing to pay for any Shure Beta style mic. My experience with the Shure neodymium sound has not been good, based on my trials with other Beta mics from Shure. If I were going to look for neodym mics, I have always liked the EV N-Dym sound better than the Shure Beta sound.
 
soundchaser59 said:
My post mentions the "SM7b" where the "b" means Beta, which means neodymium element.

I have never had enough $$$$$ in Paypal to afford a real old fashioned SM7, assuming I can even find one, and the SM7b runs about $350-400 bucks as it is....more than I'm willing to pay for any Shure Beta style mic. My experience with the Shure neodymium sound has not been good, based on my trials with other Beta mics from Shure. If I were going to look for neodym mics, I have always liked the EV N-Dym sound better than the Shure Beta sound.
Click to expand...

The "b" in SM7b doesn't mean beta. When Shure names a beta model--they use the word: Beta 57, Beta 58 etc. When they use a letter after the model name (which a lot of their mics have--beta or not) it just refers to the "version."

The "b" in SM7b simply means its updated--as in the old one was "a," this is "b." And the update was the bracket and mounting hardware.

Shure's website calls out the neodymium magnets wherever present, but nowhere in the SM7b info is a neodymium magnet mentioned.

BTW-I have one and I love it.
 
There is no Beta SM7. And new ones are on the order of $320 or so. Call Full Compass and ask for their best price. Older ones are typically cheaper. I have 2 SM7s - original models - for which I paid $200 each. No Neodymium in any of them.
 
who cares what it's made of?

this makes no sense......
 
Thanks people for the info and pointers....

I learn something every day. I dont know where I read that the SM7b is a "beta" style neodymium mic. Probably some hyped up ad copyon ebay or some magazine article, I cant remember, and I cant find anything like that now.

But you guys are right, and I'm glad to find out the SM7 (or SM7b) is not neodym. That option is back on the table now! Appreciate the education. ;)
 
I know where you're coming from.

I used to only use mics that use refrigerator magnets. Only problem with them is that my recordings would come out sounding ... well, cold.

Now I only record with the horse shoe magnets.

.
 
DaisyRock--

That's b/c your fridge was too far from the oven. Open the oven door and turn it up to 475 and you will be amazed at how much warmer your recordings sound.

make sure you don't have the AC on.....and sometimes things sound better the closer your head is to the oven.


cheers,
wade
 
According to Shure techie forum, the magnet is alnico! Even better!!
 
The only thing Neodymium magnets provide is a slightly hotter output. They are just an extremely powerful rare-earth magnet. I don't think they effect tone. There are things far more responsible for the sound of a mic than the magnet type. The coil design, diaphragm design, grill design and the material of all of those. The magnet is passive. Were not talking tube vs. solid state here.
 
..just tagging along watching this one to see where it leads. Seems there were some mention of magnet difference/preferences on drivers (maybe the JBL heritage' forum?) ..don't know, just curious.
 
Here is a bit of info which explains a few things, me thinks, things I agree with. (from a different forum) It is probably a combination of things, not just the magnet composition itself, that account for the different sound I hear.

Also, keep in mind that most manufacturers won't even tell you what magnet material they use- the Neodymium descriptor is pretty much an EV thing, although there are some other manufacturers that have picked up on it (largely to coattail on EV's marketing effort). I'd go so far as to say that neodymium is present in pretty much every current "rare earth" magnet structure, since they are cheaper than a samarium cobalt magnet of equal strength ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_magnet )...

The big deal here is that these magnets produce a much higher magnetic flux than standard alnico or ferritic magnets (by a factor of 10 to 20!). Given this, you can have the same electrical output from a much smaller voice coil, which reduces the mass of the diaphragm and makes better HF response possible. The higher the flux, the smaller the magnet or a given output, which means the smaller the coil can be. This reduced diaphragm mass also allows for the higher sensitivity that the manufacturers often tout...

I have no doubt that rare-earth based mics sound different than alnico or ferrite mics for this reason. However, I'm not at all ready to say that they are "better"- they are just different. If you're really that worried about the neodymium structures, then you should probably skip out on anything labeled "rare earth" or "samarium cobalt" as well. But frankly, I wouldn't worry about the material at all, and just use your ears. I'd bet a beer that some of your favorite sounding dynamics use rare earth magnets of one or the other flavors, these days- they are just much more efficient than ferrite or alnico.

Last of all: there are duff mics with every label and every design. Some are good, and some can be truly horrid- like the brand-new (mailordered) Neumann TLM103 I had with a poorly tensioned diaphragm that sounded like it was packed in 4 inches of cotton batting. Pretty, expensive, but useless. And replaced under warranty, BTW- they stand behind their product. Botom line is that you always must use your ears, and look past the labels: and if it doesn't sound good to you, it doesn't sound good (regardless of why), and it's your music!
Click to expand...
 
soundchaser59 said:
Here is a bit of info which explains a few things, me thinks, things I agree with. (from a different forum) It is probably a combination of things, not just the magnet composition itself, that account for the different sound I hear.
Click to expand...

I think you're hung up on a whole lotta nothing. To obsess about whether a mic has a neodymium magnet or not and basing your decision to buy or not buy a mic based solely on the magnet type is completely unwarranted. If you really think you hear that big of a difference caused by the magnet, then you have better ears than some of best out there.
 
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