Weighted Keyboard for learning/midi

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sax_fan

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I am not a keyboard player, but I do play some and would like to play better. I also use the keyboard for midi. Currently I have a Roland pc300 controller, but I am thinking about adding to that a nice feeling 76 or 88 key weighted keyboard. I am looking for suggestions of things to look at. I guess I can either get a nice electric piano and buy a separate rack for sounds or I can get a synth workstation. Ideally, I would like something that will be usable for recording, but also just a lot of fun to sit down and play around with (with the caveat that I am not particularly familiar with these things and would prefer not to get massively frustrated by difficulty of use).

In short, I am not locking myself to any particular configuration (hardware only, hardware and software combos, etc) or price limit at this point and would just like to get as many opinions and experiences as I can so I can start the hunt. I guess I should also mention that I am generally into classic and contemporary jazz and pop music -- not typically dance, techno, hip hop, etc.

Thanks.
 
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sax_fan said:
I am not a keyboard player, but I do play some and would like to play better. I also use the keyboard for midi. Currently I have a Roland pc300 controller, but I am thinking about adding to that a nice feeling 76 or 88 key weighted keyboard. I am looking for suggestions of things to look at. I guess I can either get a nice electric piano and buy a separate rack for sounds or I can get a synth workstation. Ideally, I would like something that will be usable for recording, but also just a lot of fun to sit down and play around with (with the caveat that I am not particularly familiar with these things and would prefer not to get massively frustrated by difficulty of use).

In short, I am not locking myself to any particular configuration (hardware only, hardware and software combos, etc) or price limit at this point and would just like to get as many opinions and experiences as I can so I can start the hunt. I guess I should also mention that I am generally into classic and contemporary jazz and pop music -- not typically dance, techno, hip hop, etc.

Thanks.
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Alot will depend on your budget. I do not know much about MIDI, and rarely use it. I do, however, have a Casio Privia PX-100 piano. It has 88, full-size, weighted keys and sounds (and feels) very nice in its pricerange (~$500). The Yamaha I played at the same price did not have weighted keys. If you want a lot of synth sounds, it is probably not for you, as it is just basic piano, organ, strings, etc. (i.e. - you might want a separate sound module). It has MIDI IN/OUT, but not MIDI THROUGH, which I guess means something, but like I said, I don't use MIDI much. I bought it for the sounds and the feel of the keys, not MIDI capability. I don't regret my purchase at all (have had it for ~1 year).
 
If you want just a controller, I would go with a M-Audio Keystation Pro-88 ($499)

Keystation_Pro_88.jpg
 
Fatar discontinued their Studio Logic SL990 pro and I found one at Guitar Center for $175, new in the box. Its just a controller board but feels nice (weighted keys, hammer action). It's "list price" is something like $899 but usually sold for about $499 I think.
 
I'll look into the M-Audio. Thanks. I must say, I've looked at the Yamaha S90 and Motif ES and they sound great. Lots of $$$$ though. Is there any benefit to getting a work station like the Motif or Triton if I am going to be using software and not "on the go"? Are the work station sequencers generally easier or more difficult to use than computer software?
 
sleego said:
Fatar discontinued their Studio Logic SL990 pro and I found one at Guitar Center for $175, new in the box. Its just a controller board but feels nice (weighted keys, hammer action). It's "list price" is something like $899 but usually sold for about $499 I think.
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I have 2 Fatar keyboards. The "Studio 90" (discontinued long ago), and the "SL 990", both are great keyboards, with weighted keys.
I'd look for one of those.
 
Sequencing is the one area that software has a BIG advantage. Not to say that these high-end boards can't achieve the same results. They just can't do it as intuitively as software can. Software gives you better visualization of your composition, and gives you drag and drop, easier cut and paste, etc. Plus editing things such as random velocities, controller data is so much easier to enter graphically, versus numerically.
You can get away with soft-synths for sure. I generally use software sequencing, in conjunction with my hardware synths. But I would be foolish to say you can't get good results from the higher-end software products on the market (Native Instruments, Waldorf, Novation). It's best if you can have both. But it doesn't hurt to start with software. But consider hardware as a future option.
 
i want to buy one too but will look before at the new emu xboard keyboards, presentes at namm but will be in april in the market.
 
Xboards look to be decent, but I believe they are synth action.
 
For what it's worth, most of the people that I know who play real (acoustic) piano and also play out in bands seem to prefer the Yamaha action. They tell me this is the most "piano like" of all the weighted action 'boards. I've tried these units, and would have to agree. Most of the keyboardists that I know are jazz guys, who use P90's for live use. (The S90 is the same action, but with more synth sounds and signal processing options.) For the money, you can't beat the P60, which uses the very same action as the P90 or S90, for $750. They have built-in amp and speakers, which you wouldn't want to use when recording or live, of course, but are handy when you want to just sit down and play - and they sound pretty good, actually. Some stores have access to demo (floor) models at $650. Due to the limited sounds available, you would want to add a module to either the P90 or the P60, but even buying both, you could still come in WAY below the cost of an S90. (Which is around two grand, right?) A $750 keyboard and a $500 module would save you quite a bit of coin.

That's what people who know a lot about keyboards have told me, anyway. My own keyboard chops are pretty limited, so I'm able to do everything I need to do with a XP-50, withOUT a weighted action.

Brad
 
This is where opinions vary.

Yamaha might have the best action, but Kurzweil has the best sounds. :P

I played a Yamaha P-something in Guitar Center a couple months ago and I was terribly dissatisfied with the onboard sounds.

And I'm afraid the Triton sounds are terrible too, especially the pianos. I don't see why anyone would use those who aren't in R&B/Hip Hop/Rap/whatever new Pop is.

I'm doing well at the moment with my Kurzweil SP88, but it's unweighted, which actually doesn't bother me much. It's actually easier to play than a weighted keyboard, which is kinda nice. Looking to trade in for a PC2 sometime.
 
Thanks everyone for your input.

Bassman,

My limited amount of auditioning keyboards has so far lead me to the same conclusion regarding the Yamaha action. I have a Yamaha upright so I guess it makes sense that I might like the feel of their keyboards as well.

My Keyboard chops are somewhat limited also, but as I said, i would like to work on playing better. Even though I have an acoustic piano, I want to work on my piano playing by integrating with the computer. I also think that my sequencing will have a better feel if I am using a weighted keyboard.

I'll check out the Yamaha P60 and P90. If I can get myself a good sound module along with a good keyboard and save some money at the same time, that would be great.
 
First, let me warn you before hammer action keyboard because you stated that you are not a skilled piano player. This keyboard is really hard to play (similar to real piano) if you played before only on cheap dynamic keyboards. With hammer keyb. you will not be able to play anything so fast like before. Decide yourself if it is suitable for you. If a hammer keyb. is not really for you look at some weighted one.

I was choosing a new digi piano in the midst of 2004 and I wanted the hammer one.
During that I personally played Korg SP200, 300, Casio Privia PX100 and Yamaha P60 and these are my conclusions:

1. Korg - I like bright sounds which are typical for Korg. After hearing it on a good headphones I could hear that sound is not perfect (little chemical) but it is close to real piano. The keyboard hammer action was comfortable for me. Polyphony is 60 voices for most of the samples which is an important when you use layers, effects and sustain because it reduces polypohony dramatically. I would not go under 60 voices polyphony. It does not have LCD, speakers, sequencer and also pedal is only the basic one.

2. Casio - Very surprised how good this was. I expected st. terrible from this company but this instrument is really usuable. Many functions but it seemed that the quality of samples and keyboard is lower in comparison with Korg. I am also afraid that keyboard from Casio will be destroyed after longer intensive using. But it is just estimation. It has only 32 voices polyphony which disqualified this instrument for me.

3. Yamaha - Good keyboard but I personally do not like its sound. Yamaha sounds are soft and not bright enough. They are good to band but not as a solo instrument. I know that MANY people will not agree with me but it is just my opinion. My friend has Yamaha P120 and he supposes that his P120 is much better in sound than Korg I use. Yamaha P60 has only 32 voices polyphony so maybe it is better to choose P90 with 64 voices but then the price is little higher in comparison with other instruments I mentioned. During last 12 months price of P90 falled dramatically so it starts to be real competitor to above mentioned products. In the moment when I chose the keyboard P90 was very expensive.

4. There are some other possibilities like Kurzweil and Roland but they are quite expensive and in this low cost area they do not offer you the same equipment like above mentioned ones. For example you will not get a hammer keyb.
One instrument that is worthy to look is Gem prp7 or 8 but I read many reviews of the people who have prp7 and they are disappointed with a quality of its piano sound. So if you prefer rhode sounds and jazz maybe it can be your choice. prp7 has only 32 voices polyphony but has a good pedal.

Finally I choose Korg SP200 and I would not change it. It is used for stage performance and I would not use it for mastering to PC since good sampler and masterkeyboard will give you a better sound result. What is very important is also to have a good sounding speakers if you want to play it at home.

Most of the people will probably agree that the best digital portable piano with hammer keyboard is Yamaha P120. It has a great sounds and superb hammer keyboard. Problem is that its price is quite high.

Another way is to buy masterkeyboard and to generate sounds by software sampler (e.g. Sampletank, Gigastudio) or by external module (e.g. Roland XV series, Yamaha Motif Rack).

Here I would recommend german Doepfer PK88 or a better products from this company. I would not recommend cheaper Fatar keyboards since some people had problems with them and also M-Audio Keystation 88 where I read many bad reviews.

Last possibility is to buy syntesizer.
Here you must decide whether you need sampler, sequencer and other tools included in keyboards because it raises the price of an instrument dramatically. The rule is that software solution is always cheaper than hardware solution. So my recommendation here is to buy synth without these additional tools and solve it by software in computer (software samplers I already mentioned above, as for sequencers you can use Cubase, Sonar or Logic if you are Apple based).
If you need workstation keyboard with all those tools I would go to Kurzweil K2661 or Yamaha Motif before Korg Triton or Roland Fantom since the sounds of Kurzweil and Yammaha are IMO better.
 
Fova,

thanks for the in depth analysis.

Thanks to everyone. This will be a longer term hunt. I'm going to take my time and figure out what will work best for me, so please keep the suggestions/thoughts coming, ...
 
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