We don't smell the crap 'till we step in it

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crazydoc

crazydoc

Master Baiter
Dot said:
<snip>
Thumbs down on the B1. I just returned my review B1 that Behringer sent me several months ago. I told my contact there that I didn't think the B1 was a very good mic - certainly not as good as some other mics available in that price range - and that I would not be writing a review. He was cool with that.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
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This is the most telling thing I've read in a long time. I'm not casting any personal aspersions - it's just the way the system works.

If a reviewer doesn't like a piece of equipment, he politely declines to review it. If he were to write a bad review he wouldn't get anymore equipment to review. Therefore, all we read are good reviews.

So we don't find out something is shit 'till we use it ourselves, and for many that means buying it and getting stuck with a loss. It would be useful to read negative reviews, but I don't think there's a market for that. :)
 
That's why you gotta' learn to read betwen the lines.


If you see a lot of good reviews about something, and then two pages down, a big 'ol full-page ad from that company, then make a note of it.

If, on the other hand, you see a lot of advertising about a product, but no reviews (or ones that sound really tempered; like "courtesy" reviews) . . . that should really tell you something. :D

And if you see a product that does almost 0 advertising anywhere, yet still manages to get a ton of good reviews, that's a really good sign ; see Sytek mic pres as a good example.
 
Humm, well I consider what Dot said about the B1 as a review anyway. "Thumbs down on the B1"


Originally posted by crazydoc
"We don't smell the crap 'till we step in it"

When you say "we" you must mean only you and your friends.
 
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crazydoc, I have had over 200 products here this year so far. I get something like five new products delivered to my door every week. I can't review them all. And there's so much good stuff that I want to shine the light on. So, I chose only to review products that blow me away and that I think are a great value to the consumer. It can take several hours of my time to write a thorough review – let alone the many other hours just using the gear – , and I'm not going to waste my time writing a review on something that I don't feel is a good product that stands above the pack.

We're also not in a vacuum here. Digital Pro Sound is online. Studio Forums is online. The Listening Sessions is online. And I post regularly in a lot of the forums and make specific recommendations all the time.

And DJL's comment was spot on. You did just get a review on the Behringer B1 from me. I think the mic sucks, and I have never recommended it. OTOH, I recommend the Behringer Ultragain Pro MIC 2200 all the time to people who are looking for a two-channel pre under $100. I also often recommend Behringer ECM8000's, and the Behringer Truth monitors got a nice write up in Digital Pro Sound.

We have five engineers here in three different studios who check all this stuff out, so it's not like it's just my opinion alone.

And to chessrock's comment; Nothing I write has anything to do with any advertisers, and until a few months ago Digital Pro Sound didn't even have any audio manufacturers advertising. We just recently picked up Apogee, and I don't even have any of their products here.

I write exactly what I want when I want. I'm one of the editors at Digital Pro Sound – and a lot of the other reviews and articles there that I don't actually write, I've lined up in one way or another as an editor. I could be writing for any print magazine I wanted to – I've had offers. But I don't want to deal with the cumbersome editorial schedules i.e. I reviewed the VTB-1 in August of 2002, EM reviewed it a full year later in August 2003. And, actually, I have a larger readership than most of the authors who write in the print mags anyway.

There's nothing at all that influences me except exactly what I and a few other engineers here think of any given product, and also I consider the company as far as their responsiveness and customer service.

I'll also be doing a big year end round up in December 2003 at Digital Pro Sound.

It's nice to think there might be some scam or some companies lining my pockets - but there ain't. I'm sure there's certain "politics" that happens with the ad-driven print mags - but I have nothing to do with that.

I calls 'em likes I sees 'em. Nothing more - nothing less.

Sorry to disappoint. : )

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
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crazydoc said:

So we don't find out something is shit 'till we use it ourselves, and for many that means buying it and getting stuck with a loss. It would be useful to read negative reviews, but I don't think there's a market for that. :)
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Ah, dude, um - that's why I take a lot of time and check out a lot of products. I know I'm only one voice, and certainly am no final say, but I do check out most of the products on the market. Where some guys might have tried 3 budget large condensers, I've used over 30 for almost a year in A/B sessions and in real-world recording sessions. Where someone might have tried 3 or 4 small condensers, I've been checking out over 40 pairs for months. You wanna' know about mic pres? I've been using over 50 of them for the last year. I've checked out so much stuff and have so much experience listening to and using a lot of products, I even gained the attention of AES.

Right here is one of the most-read articles on the web about buying mics for a project studio. Nothing on there is shit.

Now, if you go out and buy something on your own without getting some positive recommendations first - you're on your own. I'm not responsible for companies who make shit products or people who buy shit products. I don't even promote the mediocre stuff. There's so much stuff on the market, why go with anything less than the cream of the crop?

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
I don't generally write reviews on bad gear b/c I don't want to waste my time eval'ing bad gear. I use stuff to make actual recordings and not test tracks. If it sucks, then it doesn't get use.

When I find a real gem like the Audio-Technica AT4040, then I try to push people to it.

If you'll email me or ask me on my forum, then I'll tell you what I think about any piece of gear I've used.

Steve
www.mojopie.com
 
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Dan (and Steve)

Thanks for your informative replies. As I said in my post, I'm not meaning to accuse anyone of dishonesty or political bias - it's just that one can read just about any opinion in the print media and on the net, and for a relatively uninformed homewrecker its often hard to sort the wheat from the chaff, especially when there are stringent financial limitations.

From an undisclosed print source:
<snip> The Behringer was first up. As the singer took a pass through the tune, I couldn't help but realize how much the quality of these low?cost mics has improved in just a few years. The B-1 sounded full, clear, and crisp - perhaps a hair too crisp. On high notes with this particular vocalist, the enhanced presence boost was just a little too much, and 1 knew I would have to make minor EQ adjustments to the final vocal track. However, with a baritone R&B singer, I could see the crispness of the B-1 being a welcome characteristic. When I later recorded acoustic guitar with the B?1, placed at a slight angle toward the bottom edge of the sound hole, it sounded excellent, as it did with a ride cymbal. While I knew I'd be keeping the B1 around for special tasks, I felt I hadn?t yet found the optimum mic for the vocal track.

What a delightful surprise I received then, when I hooked up the Samson. The slightly darker character of the C01 made this mic, the least expensive of the three, the clear leader for this singer, at least after two rounds of testing. The mic was the quietest of the three, and the vocal track sounded almost perfect throughout, with no problematic boost in the highs or upper mids. The LED was a welcome addition, and the stated list price was near rock bottom. I decided the C01 was a find - as well as a steal. <snip>
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I'll just have to learn what sources are to be trusted, as in any field of knowledge. I haven't checked out your forums - I'll spend some time there and hopefully find some straight, knowledgeable advice.

Thanks again for your replies - I'm here to learn, though my wise-ass comments belie it at times. :)
 
DJL said:
Originally posted by crazydoc
"We don't smell the crap 'till we step in it"

When you say "we" you must mean only you and your friends.
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Correct - I only meant ignorant folks like myself, not recognized recording engineers who make a good living at it.
 
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Dot DID post a B1 review/opinion here in this thread... and if you'd get your face out of the bag maybe you too could relearn to smell crap again without having to step into it first.
 
crazydoc said:
Dan (and Steve)

Thanks for your informative replies. As I said in my post, I'm not meaning to accuse anyone of dishonesty or political bias - it's just that one can read just about any opinion in the print media and on the net, and for a relatively uninformed homewrecker its often hard to sort the wheat from the chaff, especially when there are stringent financial limitations.

From an undisclosed print source:


I'll just have to learn what sources are to be trusted, as in any field of knowledge. I haven't checked out your forums - I'll spend some time there and hopefully find some straight, knowledgeable advice.

Thanks again for your replies - I'm here to learn, though my wise-ass comments belie it at times. :)
Click to expand...

This is taken out of context and is very unfair. The WHOLE article reads: "I would have liked it to be like this: The Behringer was first up. As the singer took a pass through the tune, I couldn't help but realize how much the quality of these low?cost mics has improved in just a few years. The B-1 sounded full, clear, and crisp - perhaps a hair too crisp. On high notes with this particular vocalist, the enhanced presence boost was just a little too much, and 1 knew I would have to make minor EQ adjustments to the final vocal track. However, with a baritone R&B singer, I could see the crispness of the B-1 being a welcome characteristic. When I later recorded acoustic guitar with the B?1, placed at a slight angle toward the bottom edge of the sound hole, it sounded excellent, as it did with a ride cymbal. While I knew I'd be keeping the B1 around for special tasks, I felt I hadn?t yet found the optimum mic for the vocal track.

What a delightful surprise I received then, when I hooked up the Samson. The slightly darker character of the C01 made this mic, the least expensive of the three, the clear leader for this singer, at least after two rounds of testing. The mic was the quietest of the three, and the vocal track sounded almost perfect throughout, with no problematic boost in the highs or upper mids. The LED was a welcome addition, and the stated list price was near rock bottom. I decided the C01 was a find - as well as a steal. But, it really was'nt. The B-1 mic sucked too bad"
 
acorec said:
I decided the C01 was a find - as well as a steal. But, it really was'nt. The B-1 mic sucked too bad"
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LOL ! ! ! :D That would be more helpful and to the point.

You gotta' keep in mind it might be tough to score any more eval units from a company after saying something like that. No more reviews and certainly no "Listening Sessions."

. . . Leaving us totally on our own, moreless.
 
Here's a review from Princeton University that might sit better with some of y'all....
 

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DJL said:
<snip>... and if you'd get your face out of the bag maybe you too could relearn to smell crap again without having to step into it first.
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Actually, I stepped in the shit while I was concentrating on finding some colored dots on my Oktava MK012's to see if they were matched. A famous recording engineer (actually I think he's a brain surgeon who records in his spare time) on this board posted that you can tell that mics are matched if they have the same colored dots on them.

So while I was looking so hard for the dots, I accidentally bought a Behringer B1 and a Samson CO1 and wasn't able to smell that they were shit until I stepped on them.

Oh well, back to looking for those dots. :D
 
DJL said:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Dot DID post a B1 review/opinion here in this thread...<snip>
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Oh, this is a review?
Thumbs down on the B1. I just returned my review B1 that Behringer sent me several months ago. I told my contact there that I didn't think the B1 was a very good mic - certainly not as good as some other mics available in that price range - and that I would not be writing a review.
Click to expand...

That's like me saying:

Thumbs down on JLO - I'm sending her back to her mom because her ass is too fat. There are certainly others available with skinnier asses - maybe Madonna and Britney would be interested in a menage-a-trois?
 
What are you talking about, Crazydoc?

First you're ranting on about dots, and now you're on to J-Lo's ass.

Try and actually make a coherent, fluid argument. :D :D
 
Well crazydoc, I just think your being a little hard on Dot (Dan) for just giving his opinion... but, maybe that's what your best at. :D
 
Originally posted by chessrock
What are you talking about, Crazydoc?
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An opinion is not a review.

First you're ranting on about dots, and now you're on to J-Lo's ass.

Try and actually make a coherent, fluid argument. :D :D
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A review makes a "coherent, fluid argument."
 
"An opinion is not a review"

That's not always true.

"A review makes a "coherent, fluid argument.""

And sometimes a "coherent, fluid argument." is based on an opinion.
 
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