Wanna record a 3-piece band w/ a 424Mk3

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C_flat

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This will be my first attempt at recording our 3-piece (guitar, bass, drums) instrumental jazz/blues group.

I can take a line-out from my Peavey bass amp to the Tascam 424Mk3

I can take a second line-out from the guitarist's Peavey 684 PA mixer/amp to the Tascam (he runs a Roland guitar synth and a Yamaha DG Stomp into the PV Mixer/Amp simultaneously, blending synth and guitar tones!)

I can point the speaker cabs for the bass amp & the guitarist's PA-rig away from the drumkit.

That leaves me 2 tracks for the drumkit. Any recommendations on how I should start? I've got an SM-57, 2 SM-58's, and a few SM56's (I think they're 56's).

I was thinking of hanging a SM-58 from the ceiling about 18" in front of the drummer's head, just high enough that he doesn't hit it while he plays, and a SM-57 on a short stand pointed at the top of the kick drum, to maybe get a bit of kick and some of the toms. Does that sound reasonable?

Can I use additional inputs on the Tascam to assign 2 drum mics per track, thereby allowing me to scatter 4 mics around the drumkit? If so, which mics go where?

Thanks for any input,

Cb
 
Ill take a stab at it...the 58 on the kick drum, the 57 on the snare, and two of the 56's?? overhead.....
 
are u gonna keep the mix mono or do you want a stereo mix? drums in particular?
 
stereo or mono?

...whatever is easiest - it looks like the 424 has 6 mono inputs, so maybe I could get:

-Track 1: bass (direct from bass amp line out)

-Track 2: guitar (direct from PA amp line out)

-Track 3: kick (SM58) & snare (SM57), setting relative levels via mic placement-distance

-Track 4: cymbals & toms (via 2 SM-56's hung from ceiling)

Does that sound reasonable for a mono setup? Could I get drums in stereo (for tom "rolls" esp) by using tracks 3 & 4 as follows?

-Track 3: kick (SM58) & leftside toms & cymbals (leftside ceiling SM56), panned left?

-Track 4: snare (SM57) & rightside toms & cymbals (2nd ceiling-hung SM56) panned right?
 
When I first started back 8 years ago I owned a series of Tascam 4 tk's. I've found the best way to record a three piece is to do a live mono mix of the drums. For a basic mic up I'd use an AKG-D112 on the kick or Peavey PVM520i. On the snare/hi-hat something like an SM57 or if you can afford it a Peavey PVM480 or AKG-C1000. Position a third mic between the 2 top toms, an SM57 would be more than adequate but a Senheisser Blackfire is best. Lastly add one overhead mic positioned between the right ride and floor tom about 1 1/2 metres above them.
Mix all of these to one track (by panning all left or all right). It may take a few goes to get the level balance right but it produces a good sound. Now you've got three tk's left for guitar, bass and vocals.
 
If you have two tracks available for drums it would be a pity to not do them in stereo.....maybe use just the two best mics, in front of the kit about kick drum level, but pointed slightly upward and outward.......or just two overheads.....idealy, if you had some sorta way to submix with another mixer and send the stereo mix to the multitrack and mic it the way described in my first post...if you do it the way you described, youll end up with the snare and kick panned, which you dont want....kick and snare should almost always be dead center....mono will sound much better than panning those.....but id try it anyway...matter of fact, Id say just get the group together and try a few different ways....the best way to learn is to press record.....
 
I'd put (4) mics on the drums and record them onto tracks 1 and 2 (kick on 2). Send them via channels 1, 2, 3, 5. Plug the bass line into channel 6, having it record onto track 2 also.

Hook up your guitar (channel 4) as if you were going to record direct, but DON'T. Leave ch.4 in 'safe' mode. Throw headphones on, and have at it.

After the drums and bass have been successfully recorded, put a 57 and 58 on the guitar amp sending one to track 3 and the other to track 4.

This way you've got drums and guitar in stereo. You have to really have the bass level set though for it to work.
 
I believe that he wants to do it all live with no overdubs....if he wants to overdub, then we can start back to zero...many, many possibilities....
 
What everyone is saying is all good & well and there ARE infinite solutions. Personally I would still go with my first suggestion but maybe put the drums through an FX processor with a good stereo reverb or delay to give the impression of a stereo field. The idea of using a sub mixer to record drums is a damn good idea! WHY? If you have an 8 channel mixer you can do a standard drum mic up (i.e. kick, snare, hi-hat, tom, tom, floor tom, overhead left and overhead right) and so on and so on and so on. If you want a really kick ass drum sound try putting the sub mix through a big P.A. with some good bottom end and mic up the speakers. Trust me, this is instant BIG drum sound! GRRR!
 
Yup, lots of possibilities and going through a P.A. may very well produce a "big" sound. BUT, Opus, does C_Flat even have a P.A. to use? I'm sure he doesn't have half the mics you've mentioned, and may not have an effects box like you suggest, either. For that matter, I disagree that flooding one mono track with effects will produce a better sound than good mic placement spread over two tracks.
 
Vurt, at no time have I said it sounds better. I "personally" think it's a good idea because it's obviously going to leave three spare tracks on which to record bass/guitar/vocals. And of course I don't expect someone new to recording to have those mics or an FX unit!!!! I'm just trying to help someone out like we all are. Maybe you should get of your high horse and settle down a bit, we're all here for a common goal man.
 
Opey,

At no point did C_flat mention vocals. As for me being on any horse at all, you couldn't be more off-base if you tried. I'm simply trying to remain within the boundaries of C-flats post so that he can get something out of this thread. So far, your posts have been more about YOU than anything else.
 
Thanks for all your input! To clarify a bit, I've just got the 424Mk3, one SM57, 2 58's, and a couple of SM56's. No fx, other than lowly guitar pedals.

On "Killer Joe" I sing the part at the end that goes "Killer....Joe" (ala Art Farmer's version). Other than that we've got no vocals, and even Killer Joe holds up OK without my vocal styings. : )

Our guitarist normally uses his Roland guitar synth into the PV stereo mixer amp, out to Cerwin Vega cabinets spaced about 20 feet apart. He also runs the "real" guitar signal to guitar pedalboard, splitting the signal with a stereo chorus pedal out to 2 Fender Pro Reverbs, just inside the 2 C-V speakers, so he's really got a great sounding stereo guitar rig.

For the sake of getting a decent recording of our efforts (for our own "study" purposes only) he can replace the Fenders with a Yamaha DG Stomp similar to a Line6 POD, running that into the PV mixer amp as well. We'll then take a mono line-out to one track on the Tascam.

I'll take another track for the bass amp's line-out, leaving the 4 Shure mics & 2 tracks for catching the drums. I think we can minimize guit & bass bleed-over to the drum mics by turning down a bit, and turning the PA speakers & bass amp away from the drums.

Maybe down the road we'll think about adding an inexpensive Mackie mixer to try to get all the drums to a single track so we could record the guitarist in stereo, because the guitar sound in the middle of the band in terrific!

BTW - this is a great forum - lotsa great advice in a matter of days for a newbie. I've never seen that before!

Thanks again,

Cb
 
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