VST to DX Wrapper and Softsynths

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moonman

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Hi,

I just started experimenting with softsynths.
No problems with stand alone softsynths but I have troubles with VST softsynths plugins.

Now, I'm using Cakewalk PA 9.03 and a VST to DX "wrapper", which allows someone to use VST plugins with Cakewalk and others DX only softwares.
I have no problems opening the softsynths VST plugins
(PPG Wave and B4) in Cakewalk but I don't hear anything. The plugin doesn't seem to receive MIDI data from my MIDI kboard either.

First a question; is the VST to DX "wrapper" used *only* for audio FX or can one use softsynths also?
And if so, what am I doing wrong?

I am using Windows 98 SE with a Soundblaster Live.

moonman
 
Eh!

Never mind!
I found the answer.

moonman

PS: Quite the useless message boards here, if you don't mind me saying so...

[Edited by moonman on 11-24-2000 at 13:37]
 
B4 softsynth VST with Cakewalk

Moonman,

Glad you figured this out. You are way ahead of me. I just got Native Instruments' B4 VST softsynth without even realizing I might not be able to use it with Cakewalk 8.04.

Before asking how you solved this with Cakewalk PA 9.03, do you think it's even possible with Cakewalk 8?

Thanks,

ahe
 
Eh!

There seems to be 2 solutions to this problem:

1= Use Cubase or,

2= Use the Amulet (standard version) software by http://www.fxpansion.com
You will need the Hubris MIDI LoobBack software installed first on your computer. Then make sure you read the instructions. It works but requires some convoluted contorsions.

moonman
 
VST, etc.

Thanks, once again, Maskedman - oops, I meant MOONMAN,

I'll try your second suggestion, as I'm not yet ready to drop the big bucks on CUBASE.

What's interesting to me is that Native Instruments' support advice is CUBASE, CUBASE, and only CUBASE. You'd think they were in some sort of partnership.

Love that problemsolving...

ahe
 
Those convolutions you referred to earlier...

Hello Moonman,

Well, I broke down and ordered Cakewalk Home Studio 9.01 since I finally realized that Cakewalk Express 8 that I was using was raally only their entry level product.

And I downloaded and installed Amulet Standard edition (demo version so far). Which Cakewalk does, indeed, see. And I selected the HWMDCB.DLL plugin from within the VST-DX adaptor "load plug-in" button.

What next to get B4 configured. I note that launching B4 now tells me MIDI port is in use by another program, but I haven't a clue where to go from here. Three products from 3 vendors (not counting the Yamaha keyboard) - none with instructions which talk about the others - is more confusion than I care to hack without help.

If it would be more comfortable doing this 'off-line', feel free to contact me at andy@geh.org and we can make this worthwhile.

Progress is slow - but so are election returns.

ahe
 
Those convolutions you referred to earlier...

The point is to use Cakewalk which I already own and am familiar with. I'd prefer to avoid purchasing CUBASE which is expensive and presents a whole new learning curve.

In theory, Cakewalk plus the fExtension Amulet DX wrapper should allow VST plugins such as B4 from Native Instruments to work together. Until I'm convinced otherwise, I'm inclined to try to make the things I already have do what I want to do rather than go purchase something new - esp at the price charged for CUBASE.

ahe
 
Those convolutions you referred to earlier...

Well, there's no more invigorating feeling than that of being out there all by yourselves trying to figure out something no one else seems to find worth doing. Don't suppose the astronauts have that problem - 1000s of earthsiders at their disposal to troubleshoot/problem solve.

I can help you get one step further along - maybe together we can then go a step beyond that.

In my Cakewalk 9.01 Home Studio, I went to VIEW, then to CONSOLE. When it displays the console, there is on my copy an empty black rectangle in upper right with the heading "SB Live Wave" (because my machine has a SB Live sound card, no doubt). When you run your mouse over this area, even without hitting a mouse button, it will display "Right click to patch an effect".

When you do the right click, you get a list of available effects (or patches) including one titled "VST adaptor 2.0".
I believe the reason that appears is as a result of my successful install of the fextension Amulet Standard edition demo.

Anyway, click on that (VST adaptor), and it puts the words
"VST Adapter" in the black rectangle (under "SB Live").
Now you can double-click on "VST adapter", and it will open a panel that clearly says "fexpansion Amulet VST-DX adapter V2.1 demo version for evaluation only".

This panel is where my hacking comes to a dead end. Maybe you'll get further. The panel offers 3 types of settings:
Under 'load plugin' all I could figure out how to do was
under 'third party utilities' load the Hubis Loopback (HWMDCB.dll). Under "MIDI CTL" and "PRESETS", I don't yet have a clue what to do.

Maybe you'll have the insights when you get to this point that I'm lacking.

good luck,

ahe
 
Yeah - I'm lost in all this too. I've got the B4 and I want it in Cake. I've installed Hubis Loopback and it gives me the new midi ports L1,L2,L3,L4 so??
I'm lost from there

cheers
john
 
Those convolutions you referred to earlier...

Well, you might be lost, but I think you're ahead of the rest of us lost souls.

L1, L2... is more than I could find. Where do these show up for you?

Did you read the .doc file that comes with Amulet? It tells you to select L1 as MIDI input but not output (or maybe I've got it backwards). Since I couldn't find L1, I didn't get to do this.

Also, I don't know if Cakewalk Pro differs in this area from Cakewalk Home Studio 9.01 which is my frame of reference. You didn't mention which Cakewalk you were using.

Sounds like there are now 3 of us in same boat - this is good.

ahe
 
I've got Pro 9 Andy. The installation required going to the Control panel and Add New Hardware.

Copy from installation instruction::

Windows 95:
Start->Settings->ControlPanel->Hardware
Continue-> [No] ->Continue -> [ Audio/Video/Game Controller ] ->Continue
->Diskette -> [ enter the unzipped directory (c:\tmp) ] ...
Then you will see a list with "Hubi's Loopback v250", select this,
some ok and resteart Windows when asked about it

Well I restared and thus when I run Hwmdcabl.exe nothing happened until I noticed that there was a new addition to my system tray. I right clicked it and there they were, options for midi in and out. In cake now I have the L1-l4 options but so waht I don't know where to go from here. HELP!!

cheers
john
 
John,

That's useful information about finding L1, L2, etc. If I weren't at work, I'd give it a try right now, but bread on the table comes first - shucks.

You haven't yet mentioned that you've got Amulet Standard edition (demo available from http://www.fxpansion.com - $60 if you get this to work for your purposes). It's a key piece of the solution - so we're told - and, of course, adds yet another layer of complexity. It seems a shame that neither Native Instruments (whose VST plugin for B4 is my immediate goal), nor Cakewalk, nor Fexpansion's tech support seems willing to chime in with more than perfunctory ("read the documentation") help. You'd think it would be in all of their interests - here are at least 3 of us struggling right this minute on homerecording.com.

Aside from being WIN98 (the instructions refer to WIN95) and not following why HUBIS loopback gets setup under "ADD NEW HARDWARE", I'll try to catch up to where you are.

ahe
 
I'm downloading from FXpansion right now, will get back to you.
Cheers
john
 
Those convolutions you referred to earlier...

OK, John,

I've finally got the L1, ... business to show up and have put it as OUTPUT for Cakewalk. My Amulet adapter now can select L1 and have it appear in 'green' like its instructions indicate.

Previously, you were missing Amulet adapter and I was missing proper instal for Hubis Loopback yielding the possibility of selecting L1.

I've hacked Cakewalk following the Amulet instructions, but I can't crack all the patch settings - I've got B4 launched (in standalone mode - I'm not sure that's required). I'm still missing some critical understanding or minor detail(s) - I'm not sure which.

I have a feeling it's getting close - but no eureka! yet.

later,

ahe
 
VST Softsynths

This works for me: (I am using Home Studio 9.01)
These instructions were posted on another bulletin board by Angus Hewit, developer of Amulet VST Adapter. You need version 2.1 (the new demo works).
1) Make sure Cakewalk is set to use midi yoke 1 as a midi output, but not as a midi input! (I use Virtual Sampler, and have been able to get the same results using the Virtual Sampler virtual MIDI port).
2) Create a new audio track, with a short blank audio clip at the beginning and end of the track. This is required.
3) Insert VST-DX Adapter (again version 2.1) on the track, load your VST Instrument
4) Set VST Adapter to use midi yoke 1, channel 1. The midi port should be displayed in green - if it shows up red, another application is already using the midi port.
5) Now send the Adapter some midi - the MIDI indicator light (in Amulet 2.1) should start blinking. If it doesn't, check to be sure everything is set up correctly. At this point you won't hear squat.
6) Hit play (or Record) and you're going!

In my case, using an EGO SyS WAMI Box on a laptop, I am able to get usable latencies around 20 ms or so versus 12 ms using the ASIO driver in Cubase 5.0. Very usable, very nice interface versus using VST in Cubase. The pain is all the convolutions you have to do in Cakewalk. But the Amulet adapter is a champ. It also works flawlessly on VST effects, including the many FREE plugins that are out there. The only limitations in this are on the CAKEWALK side of the equation.
 
With respect to the foregoing, I have not tried it with Hubi's Loopback app, but I know it works with MIDI Yoke. In the Case of Virtual Sampler, however, there's no advantage to running VS as a VSTi in Cakewalk, compared with running it as a standalone, and using it's own Virtual Midi ports (or Midi Yoke). Same may be true for other soft synths where you have a choice or running it standalone or as a VSTi (Reactor, SYNC Modular,...) The limitation is still that Cakewalk doesn't support the faster ASIO drivers.
Where the Amulet adapter really shines I think, is in it's ability to run the VST plugin effects, and VSTi's that you can't run as standalone.

See ya.
 
Brando - you make this sound simple!

I get up to step 3 just fine. In fact, I can set the Amulet adapter per instructions in step 4.

This may seem stupid, but what exactly does Gus Hewit mean (similar instructions are in the .doc file that installs with Amulet) - where they say "Insert adapter on track, load VST Instrument".

The track is open - with silent wav's inserted at head & tail ends. There's a little black box that says "VST Adapter" that I can put anywhere, but it doesn't say anything inside, nor is it left or right clickable. Should it have found B4 by itself? Should I have set something in B4? Should B4 standalone be launched? Should B4 have been installed AFTER Amulet (instead of before, as I did)?

John Sayers, c7sus and I will all be pleased, I'm sure, to get this figured out.

Thanks,

ahe
 
If you insert a Wave File on the Audio Track (It really doesn't need to be "silence" for the thing to work), when you click in the "Effects" Column, then right click in the black area, you should see VST Adapter 2.0 (Even though the version needs to be 2.1). Click it to select VST Adapter 2.0, then click done, then double click on "VST Adapter" in the Effects Column to set it up as per the remaining instructions. At least that's how it works in Home Studio.
Hope this helps.
 
Just reading through the rest of Andyesk's question: Not sure I answered it completely. (Again, at least as far as Home Studio goes....)I click "Done" in the "little black box", then I see "VST Adapter" in the Effects Column. When I double click on that, I get the VST Adapter itself. (Afterwards, if I save the file in Cakewalk, the VST Adapter loads with whatever softsynth I was using when the file was saved.) Don't load B4 until you load Amulet as described here, and previously. B4 needs to be loaded from within Amulet itself. (Don't try loading B4 standalone).
That should do it..
 
I've got a Word document with Cakewalk screendumps I put together that hopefully explains this better. I have no place to post it, and (I guess??) I can't attach it to a message/reply.If anyone wants it I can email it to them if you give me your email address.
 
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