Volume Level Help Needed !

  • Thread starter Thread starter kidkage
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kidkage

kidkage

Bored of Canada
First I apologize for newbing.:o

Im recording into a Tascam DP008, and in reaching the mastering phase Ive realized a problem I need to fix... I record while listening through headphones and (I have the headphones set to 10, and the master and track levels set accordingly...) and that throws my volume levels off because a suitable level at headphone volume 10 is a WEAAAKKK level at headphone volume 3 or whatever. First I've came to the conclusion I should listen to the instrument tracks through Ion monitors (the $50 ones on musicians friend)... now I dont know what I should set the volumes (on the tracks, the master, and monitors/headphones) to while recording.
I know im kind of rambling but I hope someone out there can understand what Im going through and help me out please.

//Thanks for reading :D
 
Master level should be 0db in the software. You can listen on any headphones. If it's a matter of the volume of your song...and you reckong it's too weak or something then to check where you're at you can use some kind of level meter...in the digital realm look for average levels around -18db or -12db...something like that. I dunno...it's a touchy subject. I don't really know what your problem is exactly.

When you listen through monitor speakers then there's theory that shows that a certain sound pressure level...83dbu or something around there is ideal...for headphones you just need some comfortable level...because chances are you're not going to mix on headphones. You might...but that's another topic.

Track volume is always variable. If a track is too loud, turn it down. I suppose don't push track levels up beyond 0db in the software because that will make them clip and you don't want that.

Anyway, I think there's a whole lot you have to get to know and most of what I say you'll find confusing...maybe because I'm not 100% on the money or maybe because you just don't know what question to ask. Sounds like you don't really know exactly how to explain what you want to explain...as you kind of said.

So having said all that, I'll say this...what do you mean?
 
This is another reason I advise people to use a small format mixer even for mixing in the box. Find a small mixer that has control room outputs or just the regular main outs to feed your monitors/headphones. I too made the mistake starting out of not understanding the difference between the mix bus level and monitoring levels.
 
What are you guys talking about? I don't really understand!
 
In my experience, headphones do not offer an accurate impression of volume levels because most phone busses can be set independantly of the main mix, to recieve just a portion of the main-out signal. They are useful for general monitoring when you absolutely can't have sound in your recording area. Ideally, you want to be listening through monitors when mixing, not headphones.

If you're using a mixer then you can use pre-fader-listen (PFL) to set your instrument levels, to check that they aren't clipping. There might be something like that on the Tascam, I don't know. Just remember to switch it off when you start recording and don't listen through headphones, while it's on!

Dr. V
 
kidkage said:
First I apologize for newbing.:o

Im recording into a Tascam DP008, and in reaching the mastering phase Ive realized a problem I need to fix... I record while listening through headphones and (I have the headphones set to 10, and the master and track levels set accordingly...) and that throws my volume levels off because a suitable level at headphone volume 10 is a WEAAAKKK level at headphone volume 3 or whatever. First I've came to the conclusion I should listen to the instrument tracks through Ion monitors (the $50 ones on musicians friend)... now I dont know what I should set the volumes (on the tracks, the master, and monitors/headphones) to while recording.
I know im kind of rambling but I hope someone out there can understand what Im going through and help me out please.

//Thanks for reading :D
Click to expand...

I can't make the first bit of sense out of that. Before you can get technical help you need to address the communication problem. Break it down to one problem per sentence.

Do you have a defined process for setting levels? What is your target tracking level, in dBFS peak? What is your target mix level? What is your desired final track level, in dBFS RMS?
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I can't make the first bit of sense out of that. Before you can get technical help you need to address the communication problem. Break it down to one problem per sentence.

Do you have a defined process for setting levels? What is your target tracking level, in dBFS peak? What is your target mix level? What is your desired final track level, in dBFS RMS?
Click to expand...

:laughings: no prob after reading it i cant figure that out either.
Ive kind of got it figured out now though.
If you listen (through speakers) with your volume not too loud you'll notice the volume level of this rough demo is really weak



BUT now Ive got things figured out. You'll notice this mix is "fuller"
(other than the vocal level, and other overall production things that need to be redone)


Sorry for the bother, but thanks for the help
 
ah, :P
ok lets try this again:laughings:

:laughings: no prob after reading it i cant figure that out either.
Ive kind of got it figured out now though.
If you listen (through speakers) with your volume not too loud you'll notice the volume level of this rough demo is really weak


BUT now Ive got things figured out. You'll notice this mix is "fuller"
(other than the vocal level, and other overall production things that need to be redone)



Sorry for the bother, but thanks for the help
 
You've got some bad clipping going on in that second mix. I'm registering intersample peaks of up to +2.6dBFS on my meters, and zooming in on some of the drum hits shows that some of the transients are cleanly sliced top and bottom.

Listening to both mixes, the main difference I hear (apart from different vocal panning and slightly lower drum level in the second mix) is simply one of average levels. As for sounding 'fuller', see Equal-loudness contours / Fletcher-Munson curves.

Have you tried using compression or limiting to raise the average overall levels without clipping?
 
mattr said:
You've got some bad clipping going on in that second mix. I'm registering intersample peaks of up to +2.6dBFS on my meters, and zooming in on some of the drum hits shows that some of the transients are cleanly sliced top and bottom.

Listening to both mixes, the main difference I hear (apart from different vocal panning and slightly lower drum level in the second mix) is simply one of average levels. As for sounding 'fuller', see Equal-loudness contours / Fletcher-Munson curves.

Have you tried using compression or limiting to raise the average overall levels without clipping?
Click to expand...

No I cant say Ive tried that. But now that you mention it I have a friend that offered to help me out with some sound stuff back in the day... I think its time to take him up on that offer.
 
First things first:

Volume when recording and mixing is much lower than the volume of a final CD. Like...3 times lower. This is normal. It is a major problem if the sound is NOT this quiet at this stage.

So... you need a good amp and speakers for recording and mixing so the playback is nice n' loud. Don't worry how far you are turning the volume knob. Just keep turning until you are happy.


As a general rule: Record your drums so they peak at about -18 (not average). Record everything else at a level that blends with the drums. In other words, when you are done recording you shouldn't have to move a single volume fader to have a reasonalble sounding mix.

As you record your meteres will not go anywhere near the top. That is not a problem.

When it comes time to mix, you should not be peaking much higher than -10. Really, the levels will all fall into place if you record as I described above.

When the mix is done, it will still be really, really quiet. This is fine. It is usually a problem if you are loud at this stage.

Then you master the file you created. Among other things, mastering takes care of the low volume. I won't get into the whole "how loud is too loud" argument here...

Poke around the mastering forum. There are probably many posts about raising volume during mastering.
 
Time for a sticky up the top...

"How to get louder mixes" which points people to the mastering forum, perhaps... this is coming up all the time.
 
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