Vocals - please listen and advise.

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Teddie

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Folks,

This is regarding the first mp3 that I've done: http://listen.to/smartapple (I've only got one so far named "Which Way?")

Anyway here's my problem:
I saw a suggestion a while back on fattening the vocals in one of the forums and so I tried it on the song. When I recorded a vocal track (the main vocs for instance), I duplicated that track and then moved the track back very very slightly to be out of phase with the original track. Then I took the original and panned it far to the left channel and then I took the vocal that I moved back slightly and panned it far to the right channel. Although I think it sounds pretty nice in stereo (please listen to both the hi-fi version and then the lo-fi), when I listened to the LO-FI version on mp3.com it was in mono, which put those two tracks on top of each other causing a very strong flanger effect, which is not what I'm trying to do. The HI-FI stereo version sounds good because those doubled vocal tracks are separated left and right, but the lo-fi mono version is really flanging the poo out of my voice. Does anyone know how I can get that fat vocal sound that I can achieve in stereo without it going phase-crazy in mono? Or should I just go straight mono with the vocals? Thanks! +++ Teddie (Smart Apple)
 
I tried to download the low fi but it didn't work,
It's probably a problem from my side.

How I'll take the risk of giving advice with out hearing, in hope that it might solve your problem.

When you set a delay in stereo it will sound fine but when you hear it in mono you can get phase problems or the split sound seems to vanish totally.

The delay time and the panning is the key to setting it right,

What you should try is to set the delay time first in Mono.
Adjust your delay time in 1 milisecond increments. When you have a full sound in mono THEN switch to stereo.

As for panning - If you want a wide sound in Stereo and you pan HARD left-right, you might lose the the split part.
If it's important to you how it sounds in mono I would avoid panning hard. The closer to the center the better things will sound in mono.
You can get a wide spread sound in stereo that sounds good in mono. Just adjust it in mono first.
Delay times above 11ms-35ms usually sound good in mono between 35-50ms sound great in stereo but less in mono.

For the best results you should chosse a Prime number for the delay time.
 
Shailat, thanks for your advice. I'm going to have to figure something else out as far as the milliseconds of delay, because what I did was actually "cut" the smallest amount I could from the lead-in of the duplicated track so I don't know how much delay time I created doing that. I really like that "wall of sound" that is created when panned left and right... but I may need to sacrifice because of the lo-fi mono stream.
 
Couple other ideas to fatten vocals--1. compression, 2. slight chorusing, 3. Slight pitch shift (10-30 cents, cents being 1% of an octave if your effects processor does this). The pitch shift is the least likely to give you the flanging effect.
 
Another idea--something the studios do all the time--they sometimes create separate FM and AM mixes, one being stereo and the other mono. Why not create one stereo and one mono mix and upload them separately? Then you can optimize each mix for its respective format.
 
Tapehead, that's a good idea (the stereo ver/mono ver)! I'll see about doing that. Thanks.
 
You could also try singing the same vocal part (the same way) into both tracks. This fattens up the vocals, but is not so "perfect" that it would cause that flanging sound you talked about. You wouldn't have to pan the vocals as hard, either.
Just make sure you get the phrasing as close as possible on both tracks.
Then EQ each track differently and pan them out about halfway. If done right, it sounds great.

[This message has been edited by Buck62 (edited 03-23-2000).]
 
Following on from the previous messages, I've read about a 'fattening' technique in which you basically delay your monitoring signal by a few ms while you record a second track of vocals...this means that you get two nearly-the same tracks but with no flanging. It should be possible to do this using a studio delay unit.

You can also, depending on the quality of your singing (haven'y heard the tune myself) use a similar technique for pitch ie detune the monitor mix by a few cents and record a second track of vocals.

The quality of the pitch-shift isn't vital, as it doesn't get recorded at any stage.

Or do both!

Matt
 
Thanks everyone for your help in this matter.

I've taken a little bit of everyone's advise and I think I fixed the problem with the vocals. I deleted the "righty's" of all the vocal tracks, brought the "lefty's" back to center and added just a touch of delay to the vocals in mono. I think it works better. Have a listen if you get a chance - they should have updated the mp3 I uploaded by now: http://mp3.com/smartapple

The song in question was "Which Way?"

Thanks again folks!
 
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