Vocals finally added: Please comment!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr. Moon
  • Start date Start date
Mr. Moon

Mr. Moon

Force of Naked
Hey...

I finally got my friend wasted enough to do vocals on my first completely 100% Sonar recorded and produced tune!! This is a super-rough mix; just want to see if I'm on the right track.

The tune is called "War13" and can be found here:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/mrmoonmusic.htm

(*Note: Even though the song was written over 10 years ago, it seems eerily timely now, with all that's going on in Iraq, etc.)

Please check it out and comment about anything/everything, especially the vocals. Even tell me if you think it sucks ...all I ask is that you give me feedback validating your response, and ideas to correct whatever problems you find.

Here are some examples:

*inappropriate*
"The song really is lame and sounds like crap!"
Reason - "your momma forgot to take her stanky underwear when she left last night, and she told me that your song sucks. Tell her to wash better."

*appropriate*
"The song is really lame and sounds like crap"
Reason: "dated material and the guitar levels in the solo break are too low, need some boosting. I never have met your mother."

...Get the idea?

:)

I already know that I have some volume/mix issues during the solo break, and some areas where I can even hear the compressor-squish sounds.... But what can I do to help out the vocals and overall sound?

Thanks a million!

-Mr. Moon

--
Hear me at:

http://www.soundclick.com/MrMoon
- and -
http://www.soundclick.com/VictimsOfReality
 
The vocal is the biggest problem in this tune. The volume is way inconsistent. I would suggest a retrack with compression and better mic technique. The voice needs a bit of reverb or something. It is a very hollow sound ing mic/pre combo and the room is not helping at all. I think you went a bit off the deep end on the effects and kind of missed the basic issues.

The guitars sound great in comparison and the mix is hard to judge with the vocal recording issues.

Sorry.:(

Get your friend a bit less drunk and get back in there. This time use compression, sing into some foam or carpet and use some mic control.

Another suggestion: instead of distortion or filters try doubling the chorus or heavy parts.
 
Thanks for the feedback!

This is exactly the kind of info I need to learn to record and mix, especially vocals. This song is basically my learning tool (AKA: "home-studio-lab-project-tune") to work with initaially to try to figure out the techniques I need to get the best sound from the gear I have.

I appreciate your comments. I learn from my mistakes ...and it seems that there's a lot to be learned from this session!!

:)

-Mr. Moon
 
The guitar sound isn't too bad. The solo guitars sound pretty good.

The drums...hmm...need some serious work. I can just barely hear the kick. The hat is way louder than the snare. The toms sound ok.

I think there might be a bass guitar somewhere in there but I can never lock in on it...maybe that's just the bottom of the guitar. The low end of this recording is very weak.

I agree on the vocals being the weakest part of the mix. I don't mean to be offensive, but they sound like they were recorded in a bathroom with a generic microphone plugged into a soundblaster. It's a bad sound to begin with, and no amount of messing with it will make it sound good. Compression would help and reverb is badly needed...more consistant performance would help too...but really at the heart of this is a bad signal chain.

Keep it up, you'll get there!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Muchas gracias por el feedbacko!!

Okay ...so, it appears that the vocals need to go. I will need to have to have my friend give them another shot. What can I do to "sweeten the signal chain?"

As far as the other elements go, I'm having a problem with the bass and the kicks getting in each other's way. Any hints or ideas to fix this?

This was a super-fast & super-rough mix, hopefully I can get the vocals recorded a bit better.

Thanks again!

-Mr. Moon
 
yep, the drums need some leveling and eq, the guitar parts are pretty good, they just need a little more consistent level. If you could brighten the mix up a little it would help too. The bass and kick have a similar eq setting and seem to get lost in each other. Maybe taking some eq off the kick around 250 and turn it up, might let the bass out a little more. Good song idea. good pickin..
 
Well, what is your signal chain? I would start with a decent mic and preamp combination (no sense in buying one without the other). Something simple like an SM58 into an ART Tube MP or m-Audio Audio Buddy would be fine to start with. What are you recording on? That's what you'd need to work on next.

As far as the mix...I'm assuming that you're not mixing on decent monitors, and that can make things difficult. Make sure to listen to the mix on a wide variety of sources...and a lot of the comments you're hearing will make more sense.

The first thing I would do would be to just lose the vocals and redo them. Then I would change that kick drum sound a LOT. A kick doesn't have to have a lot of low end to sound good in a mix - it'll just compete with the bass...so less low end and more "thud" or beater click. That way it'll leave some room for the bass, which really needs to come up and it needs more midrange for definition....I honestly couldn't hear it very well at all on my system. Then the snare could stand to come up a bit, and after that you may or may not need to adjust the hat down.

Good luck!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Yo!

Signal chain:
* Studio Projects C1 condenser mic (just purchased earlier that day, so I didn't have a chance to work with it at all before trying to record with it ...mistake, huh?)
* Aardvark DP 2496 soundcard (built-in pre's) into computer-based audio workstation running Sonar 2.2

As for the rest of the mix, there really was *no* mixing done... I just set the sliders in one place and exported to audio in Sonar. I applied some effects to the vocals, a delay on one of the solo guitars, but beyong that it was really dry.

* What would you suggest for EQ settings for the tune? I'm assuming I'll want to apply EQ to each track individually, and then do an overall EQ when I master it.
* What would you suggest EQ-wise to get the kicks and bass to sit together well in the mix?

I'm thinking I'll probably have to re-record the vocals and bass once I get my new preamp. I have a Studio Projects VTB-1 on the way to preamp the vocs and bass, I'm hoping that will help get a better sound.

Thanks for *all* your help! Please let me know if you have any further suggestions!

-Mr. Moon
 
Well, you've got ok enough equipment then. With a condensor though you really have to pay attention to the room. My guess is that the room he's singing in is less than adequate.

Try positioning the mic in a corner, such that it's facing the corner (and make sure you get the right side of the mic pointing the right way!). Then have the singer stand in the corner facing out into the room. A few blankets tucked in the corner can help a bit too. This can help to minimize the amount of room you get in your track. Try the singer in this case approximately 10" from the mic, singing off axis (e.g. not directing pointing his mouth at the mic).

As far as EQ...never ever assume that you will have to use EQ. You should be tracking such that you can pretty much have a decent sounding rough mix without any EQ or compression. I would start with better sounds first, and only use EQ to help things blend together a little better...use it very sparingly though...just to help parts of a sound stand out a little better, or to cut frequencies that are causing problems. If you can produce an entire mix that sounds pretty dang good without any EQ at all, then you're seriously on the right track!

Always try to have some idea of how you want something to sound before you actually try to create the sound. In this case, creating the appropriate sound might mean that you do have to use a lot of EQ...I know that sounds contradictory to what I just said, but it's not. If you have a goal...a somewhat specific sound in your head...then you'll know from the start whether you'll want to EQ at mix time and/or during tracking. If you just track any old sound and expect to make it sound like something cool later using EQ, you'll never get there!

Also, try listening very critically to the kind of music you're borrowing from. I don't mean that you're ripping anything off, but there is always something that you like that's sort of similar. Listen to those songs and try to pick out the guitar or bass...listen to how it really sounds. The way you want an instrument to sound in a mix can be very different from the way you want an instrument to sound on its own, and you have to be aware of that when you're creating your tracks. You're creating one big sound out of a bunch of different instruments...that's the goal. You might really love some bass groove in your favorite song, but realize that it's really the combination of the bass itself plus the kick drum and possibly other instruments like the guitar that are working together to create the groove.

Good luck! It's hard to say how much work to do if you didn't bother to mix at all :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slackmaster2k,

Would you suggest I try a RNC 1773 while recording the next batch of vocals? I'll be picking up a SP VTB-1 tomorrow, and I may be able to get the RNC by the end of the week.

Worthwhile or not?

-Mr. Moon
 
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