Vintage Speakers....no one talks about this?

[Seafroggys]

So we all want nice vintage microphones, and preamps, and hardware compressors and EQs and console boards. The price of these devices are freakishly expensive.

But no one talks about vintage studio monitors and/or amplifiers. Why is this?

My experience is that vintage hi-fi speakers and amps are really REALLY cheap, I've built my stereo system that pretty much blows everyone I know out of the water for $150, the speakers are 30 years old and the amp is 40. Perfect working order, sounds gorgeous and beautiful.

Would vintage studio monitors be similar? Since the demand is so low, wouldn't a high quality unit be inexpensive and be better than the prosumer stuff that's out there now?

What are some good speakers to look at? And yes, I understand that if we're talking vintage (I'm talking pre early 1980's) nearfields are nonexistent, so it would probably be some midfield unit.

EDIT: Craigslist has some JBL 4311's in good condition for $600. Apparently these were *the* near fields of the 1970's. 12" woofers though? Woof! I'm assuming these would be superior to my KRK RP6's by a long shot?

 

[Bobbsy]

My experience is that, unless you get REALLY lucky, the price of vintage hifi speakers and monitors actually goes up, not down.

Before moving to Aus from the UK, I sold my old, battered Rogers LS3/5As that had cost me about 300 pounds new for nearer 500 pounds (and I had lots of eBay bids).

I don't know those specifc JBLs but, if you see something you like at a price you like, grab it. The only drawback I can think of is that some of them need a fairly hefty amp to drive them properly.

 

[Farview]

I still use a pair of urei 813c monitors. They are a perfect alternate monitor to my genelec 1031's.

 

[Muddy T-Bone]

Loudspeakers have not changed mechanically since the 1930's. What has made them better over the years are the measurement tools to aid the designers that weren't available even 20-30 years ago, and the use of exotic materials such as Kevlar.

All things being equal, a loudspeaker today is significantly better than one from made 30 years ago. In general, the electronics have gone the other way. Made cheaper today than in years past.

 

[Seafroggys]

Interesting, the Boston Acoustics that I have on my hi-fi stereo are from 1981 and they freaking rock, some of the best speakers I have ever heard. Modern speakers also fall into the cheaply made category as well. Sure, your REALLY high end speakers are probably way better than vintage speakers, but that's not the market I'm in. Based on my limited experience, I'm pretty sure a quality vintage speaker will be better than most modern prosumer nearfields, which is what I have right now on my studio rig.

 

[Bobbsy]

Loudspeakers have not changed mechanically since the 1930's. What has made them better over the years are the measurement tools to aid the designers that weren't available even 20-30 years ago, and the use of exotic materials such as Kevlar.

All things being equal, a loudspeaker today is significantly better than one from made 30 years ago. In general, the electronics have gone the other way. Made cheaper today than in years past.

I think it's fair to say that smaller, cheaper speakers sound hugely better today than they used to...the ability to apply computer modelling and exotic materials has helped a lot.

However, I'm very much less certain about bigger, more expensive distant field monitors and hifi speakers. Ones from 30 or even 40 years ago still sound amazing to me--hence my use of studio monitors from the 1980s.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Not talking about monitors or anything but when I go to best buy pretty much every stereo they have sounds like total ass to me. 20-30 years ago a typical stereo had wooden cabs and 8 or 10 or 12 inch speakers. Your everyday brands sounded decent. Now they all have tiny speakers and a sub and music sounds wierd - too much bass, not enough mids, and very little detail and depth of sound.

IMO the run of the mill household stereo has actually gotten significantly worse.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

But no one talks about vintage studio monitors and/or amplifiers. Why is this?

Because you need accurate monitoring, and vintage speakers, even if they sound "good", are not particularly accurate. You don't need your monitoring system to alter the sound like mics, preamps and signal processing do.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Because you need accurate monitoring, and vintage speakers, even if they sound "good", are not particularly accurate. You don't need your monitoring system to alter the sound like mics, preamps and signal processing do.

and as always it depends on which speakers and monitors we're discussing. Most of the cheapo monitors aren't all that accurate either.

For just listening though, I've never heard anything that sounds better ( and very few that sound as good) as my old Klipsch corner horns. Of course they're freakin' HUGE and have to go in the corners so useless for a studio but better sounding than most of what is made today.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

and as always it depends on which speakers and monitors we're discussing. Most of the cheapo monitors aren't all that accurate either.

For just listening though, I've never heard anything that sounds better ( and very few that sound as good) as my old Klipsch corner horns. Of course they're freakin' HUGE and have to go in the corners so useless for a studio but better sounding than most of what is made today.

I get to blast a pair of La Scalas several times a week. They are the PA version, with the midrange and tweeter in a separate cabinet from the woofer. I enjoy them but I wouldn't call them accurate. Speakers can sound good without being accurate.

 

[Muddy T-Bone]

Because you need accurate monitoring, and vintage speakers, even if they sound "good", are not particularly accurate. You don't need your monitoring system to alter the sound like mics, preamps and signal processing do.

Exactly.

Every Hi Fi speaker designer and supplier voices their product for thier unique signature sound. Studio monitors should have no signature.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I get to blast a pair of La Scalas several times a week. They are the PA version, with the midrange and tweeter in a separate cabinet from the woofer. I enjoy them but I wouldn't call them accurate. Speakers can sound good without being accurate.

not La Scalas ..... these are corner horns .... the sound from the 18" woofer fires forwards but no sound exits the front ....it goes thru a labyrinth folded horn and exits out a vertical slot in the rear into the room corner.
All low end goes out the back into the corner and they're much larger than the la Scalas.
Each one HAS to be in one corner of the room .... can't be used any other way.
In effect the room becomes an extended part of the folded horn and you are essentially standing inside the cabinet.
I can't really describe the bass .... not loud now .... I want to be clear. They had a fairly balanced sound but even at very low levels the bass was present in a way I've never heard with anything else ever.

And I didn't say anything about their accuracy.
I prefaced my comments with the phrase "just for listening though" so probably I was talking about just for listening.
And then I added "useless for a studio" so I probably wasn't suggesting using them for studio monitors.

Like most horn based systems they had a very prominent 2k area. It wasn't out of control but it was very much there. In terms of bass I actually think they gave a more detailed picture of what was going on down there than anything else ever. But as soon as you hit the mids it started needing some EQ'ing. For a long time I used mine with just a good stereo integrated but eventually went to a Phase Linear 31 band EQ into a 3-way crossover into 3 S.A.E. amps. I real timed it as flat as I could get it in that system.

But with either system they were the most exciting sounding speakers I've ever heard. I've longed for a pair ever since but the realities of life don't permit a huge speaker taking up two corners of a room.

 

[Lt. Bob]

ohh .... like this a front and rear pic ..... one's obviously painted.
And these look smaller than mine were ..... maybe a 15" version? Anyways ..... the top end was similar to a La Scalas with a larger mid range horn and two of the EV tweeters but I replaced the T-35's on mine with a single T-350.
Great speakers for making you enjoy listening to music.

 

[TeyshaBlue]

I own the last decent set of 601's Bose made..the series iii. Pretty decent cabs...wouldn't monitor on them, but for my home theater, they're pretty sweet...plus I almost don't need a sub with them.

 

[DM60]

and as always it depends on which speakers and monitors we're discussing. Most of the cheapo monitors aren't all that accurate either.

For just listening though, I've never heard anything that sounds better ( and very few that sound as good) as my old Klipsch corner horns. Of course they're freakin' HUGE and have to go in the corners so useless for a studio but better sounding than most of what is made today.

That reminds me of when I was in the Army. Dude bought a pair and each speaker came into two sections, one for the lower and the upper for the horn and they had to go into a corner. Are these the ones you have?

This is a time when, Dual turntable cost me (PX price) $750, Marantz speakers where easy 300 each ('78 dollars and PX prices). Pioneer made a nice rack mount system. I had a Kenwood receiver with hardwood case and polished metal front. The Bose 901's were the bomb.
Ah man, I did it, I'm rambling like an old man.

 

[Lt. Bob]

That reminds me of when I was in the Army. Dude bought a pair and each speaker came into two sections, one for the lower and the upper for the horn and they had to go into a corner. Are these the ones you have?

:

that's what I had. Haven't had them in several decades.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Yep, I'm familiar with the corner horns. The walls are the last part of the folded horn. The bass emanates from the walls so you don't get the boundary interactions you get with a normal cabinet.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yep, I'm familiar with the corner horns. The walls are the last part of the folded horn. The bass emanates from the walls so you don't get the boundary interactions you get with a normal cabinet.

yeah ..... the bass on those things is extraordinary ...... they made an even bigger set that used a 30"woofer. Odd thing with a Styrofoam looking cone. I always thought mine with the 18" sounded better with better note definition though.
Totally impractical though unless my wife left me!

 

[Seafroggys]

Because you need accurate monitoring, and vintage speakers, even if they sound "good", are not particularly accurate. You don't need your monitoring system to alter the sound like mics, preamps and signal processing do.

Right, but surely there were accurate monitors back in the day too? There had to have been.

 

[Bobbsy]

It's worth noting (again) that at least with the higher-end British speaker manufacturers, they WERE trying for accurate and neutral in their speaker designs and avoided the overly coloured sound that a lot of so-called hifi manufacturers elsewhere did. As evidence of this, note several of the speakers I mentioned that were marketed both as monitors (generally with XLR inputs) and domestic hifi (generally with bare-wire terminals)--but, besides the connectors, the actual speakers were identical.