Via chipset

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lbaber

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Hello All,
I have a question about a new computer I am going to use for my DAW. I am concerned about the Hardware Compatibility of my computer's chipset and my soundcard. The following info tells you the soundcard I am using, the warning they give concerning hardware compatability, and the type computer I am going to be using. Can anyone help me with this issue?
I have the Aardvark Direct Pro 24/96. They say that
on an AMD processor, a motherboard with an AMD chipset (such as the 760 or 761) is fine. They also say that the chipsets by VIA and Ali will work with our products, but are not recommended for audio in general. They said motherboards that have AMD/VIA hybrid chipsets are fine, though.

I will be using an AMD ATHLON XP 2600+. It has 80GB/512/CDRW/GEFFX/WINXP ASUS AMD ATHLON XP 333 FBUS 8X AGP MOTHERBOARD
It is an Asus A7V8X-X Motherboard with a Via KT400 Chipset!

Anybody have a thought on this? I would hate to go into a problem situation intentionally!
:confused:
 
The KT400 was oopsed (goofed) and released again as the KT400a. Some German guys documented the VIA disk burst problem.

For my money, I won't buy a VIA unless there is no other choice. Since the nForce is readily available and is a better performer, I won't be buying VIA for myself or my clients.

The Asus and ABit nForce boards are very attractive, and will support up to 400 MHz FSB. I have an investment in 333 MHz DDR, so I will use the ABit board, but with the XP-2600 333 MHz processor.
 
The KT400 was oopsed (goofed) and released again as the KT400a. Some German guys documented the VIA disk burst problem.
Click to expand...

My "goofed" Asus A7V8x works great.
 
Then count your blessings and enjoy your machine.

:D

Unfortunately, the VIA track record of bugs is very long, and very ugly. Logitech had a message on their site stating that VIA was the number one cause of USB problems. That message is since removed, no doubt after lawyer involvement.

There is a reason that VIA has released so many suffix "A" chipsets and 4in1 driver versions, and that reason is "bugs." I own a computer firm, and learned the hard way not to expose my clients to the problems built into VIA chipsets and SoundBlaster cards.
From the Aardvark web site: Via chipsets have a history of PCI throughput problems, adversely effecting many high end PCI devices. In most cases, they will work with our products, but we are unable to guarantee optimal performance.
Click to expand...
The PCI throughput issue was discovered and documented by German researchers. The bug is in all VIA south bridges up to VT8233a at the time of publication in 2001. This means every VIA chipset from KT333 and older has the bug.

Here is a link to this document on my web site:

VIA PCI Controller Throughput PDF
 
bgavin said:
Then count your blessings and enjoy your machine.

:D

Unfortunately, the VIA track record of bugs is very long, and very ugly. Logitech had a message on their site stating that VIA was the number one cause of USB problems. That message is since removed, no doubt after lawyer involvement.

There is a reason that VIA has released so many suffix "A" chipsets and 4in1 driver versions, and that reason is "bugs." I own a computer firm, and learned the hard way not to expose my clients to the problems built into VIA chipsets and SoundBlaster cards.
The PCI throughput issue was discovered and documented by German researchers. The bug is in all VIA south bridges up to VT8233a at the time of publication in 2001. This means every VIA chipset from KT333 and older has the bug.

Here is a link to this document on my web site:

VIA PCI Controller Throughput PDF
Click to expand...

I guess I should count my blessings, because I've built machines for myself and others from the KT133a to the KT266, KT333, and now the KT400.

I will continue to use Via, because for AMD it is what is recommended by Echo for their cards.

Same goes for Digidesign.

It's all a case of making a simple trip to the sound card manufacturer's compatibility page.

Not too difficult at all.

For Aardvark, I would use the nForce 2, as that is what they recommend. Same goes for RME.
 
:o c
Thanks for the response. The options the computer company I am buying from offers the following....
ECS K7SEM-B1.0
GB GA7VRX
GB GA-7VAX
ASUS A7V8X-L
GB GA-7VAXP
ASUS A7V8X-X
I assume they would all be a problem with Aardvark 2496. I need to contact Aardvark as well tomorrow and get the latest update on this issue. Which nvidia chipset is best to use. For AMD Athlon, which motherboard is best to use in your opinion.
 
In my professional opinion, I think the beef against VIA is 10% fact, 90% crap.

There were legitimate audio problems with the VIA KT 133 chipset. I have yet to hear anything definitive about chipsets since then, but VIAs rep has suffered ever since. And I think audio hardware makers have latched onto this as a convient scapgoat for some of their own deficencies in hardware and drivers.

And for Aardvark to be complaining about VIA .. well its a little bit like "the pot calling the kettle black". I've read more than a few posts about buggy behavior from Aardvark products. Funny how other competing products seem to avoid these problems with the same "bad" VIA chipsets.

Just For the record, I've used ASUS PIII systems (VIA Apollo Pro 133 chipset) and Gigabyte Athlon systems (VIA KT333 chipset) with sound cards from Gadget labs (Wave 824) and Delta (Audiophile 2496) and have never had a problem I could trace back to the mobo. Of course, YMMV.
 
RWhite said:
In my professional opinion, I think the beef against VIA is 10% fact, 90% crap.
Click to expand...

I know, and I agree. But everytime you go to a board, you get the "I do this for a living, and Via sucks" reasoning, as if they're opinion counts more.
 
My first audio machine was an AMD K-6 with a VIA chip set. Granted that was an old machine and I have no experience with the VIAs since then but that one wouldn't run with any higher end soundcards (Pulsar, Yamaha DSP Factory, Adat Edit). I did get a Gina to run in it (and a SoundBlaster Live). I'm just leary of them now.
 
Last edited:
Help!

I have an AMD K6-2 and that is why I am getting another computer to put the Aardvark into. The K6 is well known not to work with my Aardvark and the Cakewalk or I guess any audio application that is more intensive. I am not knowledgable about the details but I heard that the problems were solved with almost all the products out there and that most items now are "fixed" to work for people using it for audio. I am not going to be in business with this. Just working on some multitrack recording of our acoustic bluegrass band. Of course, one never knows how far you end up going once you get the hang of the software so I do not want to be limited by my hardware! I thought it was just the older AMD that was a problem (i.e. my AMD K6-2 to be exact) I already own the Aardvark sound card with the break-put box (- 24/96) or I might just ask you all what is the best system I can buy for this application for $700. That is the hold up for me. I can't spend more than that and I really don't have enough time to build one as I need to order one here today or tomorrow. The whole spec on this one is shown below. One Change from below is it has a level 2 cache at 768 . Any suggestions?

AMD ATHLON XP 2600+ 333FBUS BARTON ( I may have a 400 instead of 333)

* Socket A Interface
* 333MHz AMD Athlon™ XP processor system bus enables excellent system bandwidth for data movement-intensive applications
* The Ultimate Digital Media Experience in an x86 Platform
* Featuring QuantiSpeed™ Architecture for Rapid Execution of Applications
* 3DNow!™ Professional technology for leading-edge 3D operation

ATX STEALTH BLACK/SILVER CASE W/ WINDOW!

* 2 USB connections on front panel
* 5.25" x 4, 3.5" x 3(1 Hidden)
* Contemporary Black & Silver Metallic Finish!
* Attractive Chrome Power Button Panel.
* Durable Case_

ASUS AMD ATHLON XP 333 FBUS 8X AGP MOTHERBOARD

* Asus A7V8X-X Deluxe Brand Name Motherboard!_ Great Reliability!
* Reliable Via KT400 Chipset!
* 3 DDR 400MHz Slots!
* 6 PCI slots, a 8X AGP slot and a CNR slot
* 4 USB Ports in Back, 2 USB Ports in Front
* 1 Parallel/Printer Port, 2 Serial Ports
* USB 2.0 Ports!
* Supports PC3200 DDR 400 MHz Modules & 8X AGP!

_

512 MB MICRON PC3200 400 MHz DDR MEMORY

* Top memory producer in the world.
* Memory Speed at Super Fast 400 MHz!
* UPGRADE TO 1 GB (1024MB) 400MHZ FOR ONLY $89.00!


_

80 GB WESTERN DIGITAL 7200RPM_ HARD DRIVE (I will partition 20 - 60)

* EIDE Interface
* Faster 7200RPM Speed!
* Support Ultra ATA/100
* Top Hard Disk Producer in the world
* UPGRADE TO 120GB 7200RPM FOR ONLY $40.00!

_

52X/24X/52X BLACK SUPER FAST CD-RW DRIVE

* High Speed Audio Extraction
* Burn Full Music CD's within 2 Minutes!
* ATAPI/E-IDE Interface
* Support ULTRA DMA 33 & PIO MODE 4
* ADD DVD DRIVE FOR ONLY $49.00!

1.44MB 3.5 BLACK FLOPPY DISK DRIVE

* UPGRADE TO FLASH STORAGE DRIVE FOR ONLY $10.00!


_

128MB DDR NVIDIA GEFORCE FX 5200 8X AGP VIDEO CARD

* NEW 8X AGP Technology!
* Fill Rate : 1.3 Billion Texels/Sec.
* Memory Bandwith : 10.4 GB/Sec.
* New CineFX Engine w/TV out
* Highest Performance for DVD Playback & Gaming
* Lightspeed Memory Architecture!




_
3-D ENHANCED HIGH QUALITY SOUND

* AC-97 Integrated Codec Sound
* Directsound for Clarity
* Supports ADC & DAC



10/100MBPS REALTEK ETHERNET NETWORK ADAPTER

* Integrated REALTEK RTL8100 Chipset
* Standards: IEEE 802.3 10BASE-T, IEEE 802.3u 100BASE-T


56K CONEXENT V92 FAX MODEM_

* Fax and High Speed Internet Connection Ready
* Super Fast V.92 56Kps Speed!


KEYBOARD, MOUSE, & SPEAKERS

* Beautiful Black 04-Key Internet Keyboard
* Black Mouse USB w/ SCroller
* Black 2 PC Speakers

SOFTWARE & DRIVERS_

* Windows XP Home Edition
* All Drivers for Video, Sound, LAN, and Modem included.
* MediaRing Talk for PC to PC or PC to Phone internet Phone communication_
* PC-Cillin 2000 for Windows 95/98/NT/2000 and internet virus protection.
* Super Voice for voice, fax and data communication
* Nero 5.5 ROM for burning music and data CD's
* CD Ghost
* Recovery Genius
* PageABC
* Language Genius
* Bitware 3.30.20
* Yahoo! Messenger
* FaxTalk Communicator
* Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5
* Netscape 6
* Netmeeting 3.01
* QuickTime 4.1.1
* Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.05
* Windows Media Player 6.4

WINDOWS XP HOME EDITION
_
Here are the possible motherboard upgrade:
ECS K7SEM-V1.0 SIS 730S Chipset, AMD Socket A,_ 3 DDR 333, 5 PCI, 4X AGP, Onboard Sound AC97, Video, 10/100 LAN, USB 2.0, ATA-133,_ ATX _ $64.00 (default)
Gigabyte GA-7VRX VIA KT333 Chipset, AMD Socket A, 2 DDR333, 2SDRAM133, 5 PCI, 4X AGP, Onboard Sound AC97, 10/100 LAN, USB 2.0,_ ATA-133, ATX_ _ $99.00
Gigabyte GA-7VAX VIA KT400 Chipset, Socket A, 3 DDR 400, 5 PCI, 8X AGP, Onboard Sound AC97 6 Channel Sound, 10/100 LAN, USB 2.0 ATA-133, ATX_ _ 109.00
Asus__ A7V8X/L_ VIA KT400 Chipset,_ AMD Socket A, 3 DDR333, 5 PCI, 8X AGP, Onboard Sound 5.1 Six Channel, 10/ 100 LAN, USB 2.0, ATA-133,RAID, IEEE 1394, ATX (3 Year Warranty) _ $159.00
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP VIA KT400 Chipset, Socket A, 3 DDR 400, 5 PCI, 8X AGP,
Onboard Sound AC97 6 Channel Sound, 10/ 100 LAN, USB 2.0 ATA-133, RAID,

Here are the HardDrive possibilites:

20GB Western Digital ATA/100 5400RPM_________________ Web:_ www.westerndigital.com _ $69.00
40GB Western Digital ATA/100 5400RPM_________________ _ $79.00
40GB Western Digital ATA/100 7200RPM _ $89.00
40GB Western Digital ATA/100 7200RPM 8MB CACHE _ $99.00
40GB Maxtor ATA/133 7200RPM _ $89.00
80GB Western Digital ATA/100 7200RPM_ _ $109.00
80GB Western Digital ATA/100 7200RPM 8MB CACHE_ _ $139.00
80GB Maxtor ATA/133 7200RPM_ _ $169.00
120GB Western Digital ATA/100 7200RPM _ $169.00
120GB Western Digital ATA/100 7200RPM 8MB CACHE

Sorry about listing the prices.... I just cut and pasted it in.... Boy, I was hoping it would be easy to just buy one and get started. After not being able to use my stuff cuz of the AMD K6 2 I have not even got my feet wet with this stuff yet. What do you think , folks??????

IEEE 1394,_ SATA,_ ATX_ _:confused::mad:
 
RWhite said:
In my professional opinion, I think the beef against VIA is 10% fact, 90% crap.
Click to expand...
Then again, there is the possibility of "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."

This is why I provided a link to the published works about the PCI burst bug.

I see a good amount of "I do this (recording) for a living, and XXX sucks" here. I do not record for a living, so I take these statements at face value, especially when backed up with facts.

I'm not a recording engineer, but I do have 30 years' engineering experience in computing, and have fought the VIA problems first hand. I've been through dozens of VIA driver updates, AGP problems, and USB bugs, again first hand. I also offered facts rather than hot air and fervent belief to support my opinion.
 
amd athlon - nvidia...nforce2 that is what Aardvark says one would be best to use if using amd.....
as was said
 
Ibaber - that sounds like a fine system. As you already know, the K-6 famility of processors had very poor floating point performance. They were fine as general purpose mom-and-pop systems but not much good for anything using a lot of floating point, which includes audio.

Bgavin - well, I don't have 30 years in computeing. But in my paltry 18 years as computer tech / builder / helpdesk guru I've heard many rumors, with few of them backed up by facts. I did read the link, I found the tests interesting if somewhat dated (2001). It will definately prompt me to look for some more info. I'll conceed that I have not set up any ATA133 RAIDs on a VIA chipset. The issue I was refering to was the "pops and clicks" issue that the VIA 133 chipset was known to cause.
 
I also offered facts rather than hot air and fervent belief to support my opinion.
Click to expand...

After building several Via based computers for recording purposes, which is what this message board is about, I feel as though that's a little bit more than hot air and fervent belief.

What, do you want their e-mail addresses for testimonials?

I guess the source of my irritation here is that you're basing the "Via sucks" comment on stuff from 2, almost 3 years ago that is getting to be less and less relevant to audio as time goes on.

People on the Digidesign board are getting 32 tracks+8aux with 5 plug-ins per channel running Via based boards.
 
the nForce2 mobos outperform all KT400, and KT600 chipsets..

Nothing wrong with VIA's latest chipsets, but with nForce2 Ultra 400 mobo's availible, I see no reason to buy a VIA mobo..

BTW.. get a Seagate HDD..

128MB DDR NVIDIA GEFORCE FX 5200 8X AGP VIDEO CARD

* Highest Performance for DVD Playback & Gaming
* Lightspeed Memory Architecture!
Click to expand...

:D :D :D :D

56K CONEXENT V92 FAX MODEM_

* Fax and High Speed Internet Connection Ready
* Super Fast V.92 56Kps Speed!
Click to expand...

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Meshuggah said:
the nForce2 mobos outperform all KT400, and KT600 chipsets..

Nothing wrong with VIA's latest chipsets, but with nForce2 Ultra 400 mobo's availible, I see no reason to buy a VIA mobo..
Click to expand...

I do. If you want Digidesign or Echo, nForce2 isn't supported.

And depending on what benchmark you read, the nForce2 is barely ahead of the KT400 and KT600.
 
Quote from Tom's Hardware, comparing nForce2 to KT400, and KT400a:

The differences that we found in all of the benchmarks are very small; too small to feel anything at all, even. I had to run all benchmarks three, four or sometimes even five times to make sure I got a reliable result rather than a benchmark variance.

Finally, I have to make clear that such small differences as the ones we have here can easily be made up by a good motherboard or come to grief by a poorly performing model.
Click to expand...
 
rwhite-come to think of it... I was running an Athalon 1200 with Abit mobo using Via chips and I kept on getting that awfull poping noise during recording using my raid config hd. I thought it was the raid card (Fast track card) or maybe both the hd failing. I eneded up switching to Asus Dragon lite with P4 2.4 with the same raid hd config. I never got that poping back ever since. Funny thing about it... Asus is still using Via chips. I guess it's the newer versus the older chips that show the big performance difference. Thought I'd share my little expirience.
 
I just bought this exact motherboard (Asus A7V8X-X) a couple days ago.
It is entirely decent except for a few things:

1) It is completely incompatible with my MOTU PCI-324. I believe this is more of a problem with MOTU than anyone else, so it'll probably work fine for you.

2) The BIOS settings don't give me what I want. There is a particular setting on many of the latest VIA-based boards that lets my MOTU work (disabling PCI POST WRITES), and the Asus doesn't have it. I'm pretty pissed about that.

3) It seems less capable of aggressive RAM timings than my Soltek KT333-based motherboard, surprisingly. In fact, the Soltek will run perfectly at CAS2, 333Mhz, while the Asus needs to be at CAS2.5 to even boot, or CAS3 to run XP without crashing.


It's a good board, all-around. Just make sure you get good memory (non-generic) and a good PSU to go with it. In hindsight, I would definately go for an NForce2-based motherboard over the Asus, but mostly just because of the MOTU problems I'm having.
 
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