Venture into room treatment

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jawny_appleseed
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Jawny_appleseed

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I too, as many of have, am going to venture into the world of room treatment. I plan on building the panels according to the plans and knowledge that Ethan Winer has generously provided us with (http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html) and I plan on building as many as it takes to create a wonderfully sounding room.

If you go to this link you will get an idea of space I'm going to work in: http://members.shaw.ca/johnyc/room.bmp

The room is in the basement and measures 11' x 14' and 7.5' tall.
The walls and ceiling have been drywalled, insulated and painted, and behind the rear and right walls is the concrete foundaton. The floor has padded and carpeted.

A few questions:

1) Considering that the room is already finished and that I might only be living here for 2 more years, I plan to lean the panels against the walls. Is this much less effective compared to panels attached to the walls ? Would It be beneficial to have the panels some distance away from the walls ? Or will right against the wall and slightly tilted be just as effective ? I was thinking about building some kind of arms extending backwards that attach to the sides near the middle of the panels. The arms would also have some kind of rubber feet and this part will be touching the wall.

2) Since my room is only 7.5' tall would it be best to cut the boards and fiberglass down to size ? OR would it be better to make them 8 feet and lean them against the walls, creating a pretty big angle ? In these two cases there wouldn't be any arms and just the tops of the panels would be touching the walls..

3) I don't think I can hang anything from the roof so what affect will this factor have on the overall room acoustics ?? Taking this factor into consideration, other places where I can't treat (door and left half of closet door), room dimensions, the fact that this room will be the mixing/control/tracking room for vocals, electric, acoustic, bass guitar, and quite possible piano and drums in the future, which type of panels should I build, how many of each, where and how far apart would you place them ??

4) The location I choose for the near field monitors was based on the fact that I want to put my computer in the closet. Is this a good location for the monitors ?? How far apart from the walls and from each other should they be ??

Sorry if I asked too much, but I want to get this right the first time :)

Thanks for any help that I get
 
JA,

> I plan to lean the panels against the walls. Is this much less effective compared to panels attached to the walls ? <

No problem making back panels and leaning the traps against the walls. But put them close to the wall, standing vertically, not leaning out into the room. You can either make the traps a little shorter than eight feet, or hang them horizontally on the wall.

> other places where I can't treat ... which type of panels should I build <

Make an even mix of low-bass and high-bass traps, and mix those evenly with fiberglass absorbers. For example, four low-bass, four high-bass, and eight fiberglass. Plan the layout so you end up with fiberglass on the doors and other odd spots where the wood traps won't fit.

--Ethan
 
sweet, the man himself provides insight. Thanks a bunch I appreciate it :)
 
Just to clarify..by fiberglass on the doors you mean the mid/high absorbers correct ??
 
Jon,

> by fiberglass on the doors you mean the mid/high absorbers correct ?? <

Yes. Though you can build bass traps onto doors too. But it's easier to just alternate the traps so you end up with fiberglass-only absorbers on the doors.

--Ethan
 
Hmm.. Is it imperative that I build the panels with non-parellel fronts ?? Cause I'm not much of a craftsman and I'm not sure how I'd go about creating the angled fronts..
 
Jon,

> Is it imperative that I build the panels with non-parellel fronts ?? <

No, and my plans show a normal front panel which works fine.

--Ethan
 
Ok cool that'll make things a lot easier.
I know I should make the backs with something that is heavy as possible. This MDF stuff sounds good, but should I also try to do the same for the sides of the panels ??
Also have you made any panels with Rigid stuff greater than 1" think ??
 
Jawny,
from what I understand, thicker i.e. 2" rigid fiberglass has greater
efficiency at lower frequencies. But all of Ethan's traps are 1"
fiberglass. I noticed at SAE, John's slat resonators are 2"

Can any one confirm for Jawny (me too:D) that thicker figerglass(2") is better for the low end in panel bass traps?

I would guess and say yes, but I would like to hear other opinions.

T
 
If you look at the Sound Absorption coefficients for the different rigid panels, the greater the thickness the greater the absorbtion. If you look here for example: http://www.knauffiberglass.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=prd.dspProdDetail&ID=21
1" absorbs .13 at 125 Hz and 2" absorbs .26 at 125 Hz
I believe 1.0 is total absorbtion.
So thicker does absorb more, but I'm not sure if its worth the extra $$, also they would take up more space..also I'm thinking we don't want total absorption so my concerns are whether one would want a mixture of various thicknesses.. Like would it be more effective to have very thick panels at certain strategic locations, or would it be better to have thinner ones all around the room ?? I guess the more I read about this stuff, the more I'll anwser my own questions
 
Jon,

> should I also try to do the same for the sides of the panels ?? <

Just make the sides as shown in the plans.

> have you made any panels with Rigid stuff greater than 1" <

Note that the fiberglass inside a panel trap does not serve the exact same purpose as when fiberglass is used all by itself. For a panel trap one-inch 703 is sufficient. But if all you're using is fiberglass, then denser and thicker is better.

--Ethan
 
Found some stuff

Alrighty I found some 1" and 2" thick Owen's 703. The stuff is yellow right ? and rigid enough to be cut with an exacto kinife ?
Did I find the right stuff ? I thought it would be a lot more rigid..

Also the place I found only has them in 2 x 4 sheets ands comes in bundles of 20.. It won't make a difference if I put 2 of those in a trap compared to just one 2X8 sheet right ?

When nailing it down do you want the stuff to squish down as much as possible ?

For the 1x4, 1x3, and 2x2 does it matter what kind and grade of wood I use if I'm not worried about looks ??

I havn't checked all places in town, but so far I could only find Oak for 1/8" thick plywood.. Is Oak as effective as Birch ?

What kind of clear coating would you recommend for painting on the surface of these suckers ?

You said I should have an even mix of bass traps and mid/high panels.. what if I were to put just bass traps in the corners (4 low and 4 high bass) ?? How would that turn out ?
 
Last edited:
Re: Found some stuff

Jon,

> The stuff is yellow right ? and rigid enough to be cut with an exacto kinife ? Did I find the right stuff ? I thought it would be a lot more rigid.. <

Yes, that's the right stuff. "Rigid" is a misnomer, but it is more rigid than fluffy fiberglass.

> Also the place I found only has them in 2 x 4 sheets ands comes in bundles of 20. <

Yep, that's how it comes. You use two pieces for an 8-foot trap.

> When nailing it down do you want the stuff to squish down as much as possible ? <

No, screw it down only enough to hold it in place.

> For the 1x4, 1x3, and 2x2 does it matter what kind and grade of wood I use if I'm not worried about looks ?? <

No, wood is wood.

> so far I could only find Oak for 1/8" thick plywood.. Is Oak as effective as Birch ? <

Any plywood is fine.

> What kind of clear coating would you recommend for painting on the surface of these suckers ? <

Whatever finish you like is fine.

> You said I should have an even mix of bass traps and mid/high panels.. what if I were to put just bass traps in the corners (4 low and 4 high bass) ?? How would that turn out ? <

Eight traps will help. More traps will help even more. The general guide is to install as many as you can fit and afford.

--Ethan
 
Sweet thanks so much for your help Ethan. I think I'm ready to purchase everything and start construction :)
I'll definately let you know how it turns
 
Actually another question :)

For the mid-high absorbers could I just wrap cloth directly around the insulation and then pinning up on the wall ? Will it make it less effective ?
Cause there isn't really anypoint making a frame and then attaching it to some 3/4" thick particle board.. that'll just cost more.
 
and another.. The room im in serves another purpose and that is it is the place where I sleep. Since i've taken the matress out I noticed there is quite a bit more echo in the room.
I took the bed out cause I have a new room to sleep in, but should I keep it in here and use it as a absorber or will the panels be just as/ more effective ? plus i'll have more room if its gone..
 
Jon,

> could I just wrap cloth directly around the insulation and then pinning up on the wall ? Will it make it less effective ? <

Yes you can do that, but leave an air gap between the fiberglass and the wall. The larger the gap, the more effective the fiberglass is at lower frequencies.

> should I keep [the bed] in here and use it as a absorber or will the panels be just as/ more effective ? <

The panels will be much better. And much smaller.

--Ethan
 
Hey I just went by an acoustical treatments place and got some Knauf!! Only thing is I got "kb85" which is 6.25" of fiberglass acoustical insulation that is not rigid. Can I still make some traps with that stuff? They said sound studio guys come get it all the time. I've got 3" wedge foam that can probably cover from waist high to the ceiling in my vocal "closet." I was planning on putting the traps/boxes on the floor up to 2-3 feet. Is there any way I can just the the fiber glass in there? Is it as good? It came in 2'x4' sections.

Thanks,
Jeremy
 
Jeremy,

> Only thing is I got "kb85" which is 6.25" of fiberglass acoustical insulation that is not rigid. <

I'm not familiar with that particular type of fiberglass. If it came in 2x4 sheets it may be the right stuff. Understand that "rigid" fiberglass is not truly rigid - it's not like a piece of wood. Rather, if you hold it in your hands parallel to the floor like a diving board, it will stay straight and not flop over. Is this like what you got?

--Ethan
 
Ethan,

The kb85 is not rigid. It is 6.25 inches thick (compressable though) and I got 128 sq. ft. for 35 bucks. I went back today to try and get the 2" semi rigid stuff...it's 55 bucks for 48 sq. ft. and the minimum order is about 500 sq. ft. Don't think I'm doing that. If you know anyway I might use the kb85 stuff let me know. I'm making a medium size walk-in closet a vocal/recording booth. I've already got about 70 sq. ft. of 3" wedge foam that has an overall RNC value of .88, which isn't bad...and decent absorption at 250-500 Hz (?). Let me know any ideals...I was thinking of making frames with 1x4's at 2ft. by 4ft.

Thanks,
Jeremy
 
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