mark4man
MoonMix Studios
People...
Try & follow this...please:
In SONAR XL2.2, where I track & mix, I'll have, for example, the guitar tracks routed to a sub bus (to apply plug-in processing to the entire bunch)...the vocals to a sub bus, etc., etc.
In SONAR4, where I pre-master from...when I configure the same busses accordingly...it just doesn't sound the same (even tho, theoretically, it should.)
As an "example"...back in v2.2...I'll output all rhythm section tracks to A, set A's output level @ -6dB; & route that to hdwe. outs 1-2. I'll output all guitar tracks to B, set B's output level to -3dB; & route that to hdwe. outs 1-2. I'll output all vocal tracks to C, set C's output level to 03dB; & route that to hdwe. outs 1-2. I like the way it sounds.
I move that project over to v4; & now have to shave the ceiling for pre-mastering...so I'll place a plug-in limiter (UA's Precision Limiter) across A; & now set the input gain to -6dB. Since I want everything limited (& since I can't route B & C's output back to A in v2.2)...I route B & C's output back to A in v4; & now, theoretically, have to compensate in the opposite direction by the same value (as the input gain on the stereo bus; 6dB.) So I increase B's output level by 6dB, to +3dB; & C's output level by 6dB, to +6dB.
It should sound the same (i.e., all levels equal) except for the subtle difference of having the entire mix limited, but it doesn't. I always have to fiddle with the guitar or vocals by a half decibel or so (in v4) to get it sounding as close as possible...but I can't ever make it sound the same.
They did a poll at 3daudio a while back, whereby many listeners preferred the sound of clipping to limiting; & I thought at first maybe that was what I was hearing...
...but SONAR 2.2 is also a floating point environment, so I'm not hearing any clipping when I listen to the real-time playback in that app...
...& that's the sound I like for this particular song.
I know we all have this same dilemma...but I wish I could just make it sound the way it does in real-time playback in v2.2; & capture it without the f_ _k_n' overs !!! I really want to stay in the box, but I also can't bounce from SONAR 2.2 (in the same way as v4) unless I use auxiliaries (&...I don't care what anybody tells me...aux busses do not sound the same as virtual busses...no way in hell.)
Solutions like TapeIt won't work, either [& no one's ever been able to tell me where they pull their signal from, anyway (but it's gotta' be just prior to the hdwe. mains.)]
I could go back to v2.2...eliminate the sub busses by routing all tracks back to A; & place my plug-ins on every single solitary track, just for the bounce...but that won't work either, because it'll change the character of the ambience on the reverbs & what not.
So...what now ??? Go out & get a hardware L2 & a Masterlink ?*?*?
I'm really f_ _ked, here; & growing more agitated by the day.
mark4man
Try & follow this...please:
In SONAR XL2.2, where I track & mix, I'll have, for example, the guitar tracks routed to a sub bus (to apply plug-in processing to the entire bunch)...the vocals to a sub bus, etc., etc.
In SONAR4, where I pre-master from...when I configure the same busses accordingly...it just doesn't sound the same (even tho, theoretically, it should.)
As an "example"...back in v2.2...I'll output all rhythm section tracks to A, set A's output level @ -6dB; & route that to hdwe. outs 1-2. I'll output all guitar tracks to B, set B's output level to -3dB; & route that to hdwe. outs 1-2. I'll output all vocal tracks to C, set C's output level to 03dB; & route that to hdwe. outs 1-2. I like the way it sounds.
I move that project over to v4; & now have to shave the ceiling for pre-mastering...so I'll place a plug-in limiter (UA's Precision Limiter) across A; & now set the input gain to -6dB. Since I want everything limited (& since I can't route B & C's output back to A in v2.2)...I route B & C's output back to A in v4; & now, theoretically, have to compensate in the opposite direction by the same value (as the input gain on the stereo bus; 6dB.) So I increase B's output level by 6dB, to +3dB; & C's output level by 6dB, to +6dB.
It should sound the same (i.e., all levels equal) except for the subtle difference of having the entire mix limited, but it doesn't. I always have to fiddle with the guitar or vocals by a half decibel or so (in v4) to get it sounding as close as possible...but I can't ever make it sound the same.
They did a poll at 3daudio a while back, whereby many listeners preferred the sound of clipping to limiting; & I thought at first maybe that was what I was hearing...
...but SONAR 2.2 is also a floating point environment, so I'm not hearing any clipping when I listen to the real-time playback in that app...
...& that's the sound I like for this particular song.
I know we all have this same dilemma...but I wish I could just make it sound the way it does in real-time playback in v2.2; & capture it without the f_ _k_n' overs !!! I really want to stay in the box, but I also can't bounce from SONAR 2.2 (in the same way as v4) unless I use auxiliaries (&...I don't care what anybody tells me...aux busses do not sound the same as virtual busses...no way in hell.)
Solutions like TapeIt won't work, either [& no one's ever been able to tell me where they pull their signal from, anyway (but it's gotta' be just prior to the hdwe. mains.)]
I could go back to v2.2...eliminate the sub busses by routing all tracks back to A; & place my plug-ins on every single solitary track, just for the bounce...but that won't work either, because it'll change the character of the ambience on the reverbs & what not.
So...what now ??? Go out & get a hardware L2 & a Masterlink ?*?*?
I'm really f_ _ked, here; & growing more agitated by the day.
mark4man