Using Compression

  • Thread starter Thread starter sausy1981
  • Start date Start date
S

sausy1981

New member
Hi guys, I'm recording the last 5 yrs and recently switched from cubase to sonar x1 producer and love it, but I wanted to ask a question about compression.
I record my tracks through my BR800 and add a little compression at the tracking stage using the BR800, I was wondering if it is ok to then use the compressor on the pro channel strip within sonar to add a little bit more compression on my tracks. I understand the fundamentals of compression but I don't think I'm using it right.
My music style is a kind of easy listening acoustic based pop/rock. I generally have drums, (session drummer 3), bass guitar, acoustic guitar, some elelc guitar and Vocals.
I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on should I use compression on every track, and should I use compress my tracks before I start mixing.
Thanks in advance.
 
As with any of these questions, there are no absolute answers--it's a case of "what works for you".

However, NORMALLY, it's probably not a good idea to run compression twice at the tracking/mixing stage, especially if there will be more when the whole mix is mastered. If it was me, I'd turn off the compression on the BR800 (or, if it allows--I've never used one--at least set the threshold and ratio to use it only as a limiter, then set your levels so, barring an accident, you never hit the limiter).

As for your other questions, no you don't have to compress everything. Only compress as a conscious choice when the dynamic range means things are getting lost in the mix. Even then, compression isn't an automatic answer--you can "compress" manually by riding levels on your mix.

However, if you decide tracks would benefit from some subtle compression, then go for it. I'm not clear about your question about "compress before I mix". Can Sonar not do real-time compression while you're mixing? If not, then yes, apply compression WHERE NEEDED to the tracks that require it.
 
I have concluded that "the pros" who ever they are whatever that is, use compression a LOT more than they let on. But I would qualify that by suggesting that the need for compression is inversely proportional to the quality of the musician. The better the singer, the less compression you will use on that voice. Recording electric guitar that already uses a pedal board and runs overdrive or distortion? Never any need for compression there, ever. When I record bass tracks I play myself, it neeeeeeeeds compression desperately to make me sound half way competent. But when Stanley Clark records bass, I'm sure they do not compress it at all. He's just that good.

In other words, I think compressors are basically used to compensate for unskilled performance. A great singer will never need it.

That being said, the home recording rule of thumb I use is this....... compressors should be seen (on the LED meters) but not heard. Learn how to use it carefully so that it serves a purpose without anyone noticing that you are using it.
 
Compression is like salt. Sometimes it's needed but too much can ruin a dish. You really have to figure out if you need any at all and how to use it when you do. Only a lot of experience and critical listening will teach you. I wish I had an easy answer for you but there really isn't one.
 
As others have said, compress where needed

And a good guide as to where is needed is do things poke out and/or disappear within the mix. Vocals are often candidate for compression just because of the nature of the voice and it's extremely wide dynamic range and, depending on the type of music, it is not unusual to get multiple passes of compression during tracking and mixing
Drums too can benefit from compression because of their extremely spiky transients and even more so recording to digital where you don't get any "rounding off" of the transients as you could do with tape

The main thing is no to get carried away and squeeze the life out of the music though. If you are finding the compressor is having to work all the time to try and even things out on many tracks it's time to think about fader moves or if it's really extreme and things aren't evening out a re tracking session to get the performances right.

Unless you are going for a special effect not possible in nature, any signal processing such as compression, EQ etc should really be tweaks to get everything to come together nicely, if you are having to lean on these effects to get tracks just to sound OK then something was not right when you recorded them
 
Cheers guys, I kinda get what your telling me, I've been messin about and trying different things, I find that the 76 compressor on the pro channel in sonar producer is quite good.
For my vocals for example I set my ratio pretty low, 4:1. then I set my attack low too around 1ms or 0, then my release is around 200 ms, then what I do is adjust my input signal until I see the meter starting to move. The thing I do here is watch the meter and make sure I never get a GR of more than 4 or maybe 6db, I then adjust my output until my signal is the same as my fader on my channel.
Having done this I then watch my channel meter and watch for the lowest and highest level and see the difference between them, I do this on my vocal tracks and my guitar tracks obviously using different settings for the guitar tracks, I use the compressor in my BR800 when I'm recording bass and it works great for that . I know it all depends on what sound I'm trying to achieve and if my signals and performance are ok but is this the right sequence of steps I should take when using compression.
thanks
 
sausy1981 said:
Cheers guys, I kinda get what your telling me, I've been messin about and trying different things, I find that the 76 compressor on the pro channel in sonar producer is quite good.
For my vocals for example I set my ratio pretty low, 4:1. then I set my attack low too around 1ms or 0, then my release is around 200 ms, then what I do is adjust my input signal until I see the meter starting to move. The thing I do here is watch the meter and make sure I never get a GR of more than 4 or maybe 6db, I then adjust my output until my signal is the same as my fader on my channel.
Having done this I then watch my channel meter and watch for the lowest and highest level and see the difference between them, I do this on my vocal tracks and my guitar tracks obviously using different settings for the guitar tracks, I use the compressor in my BR800 when I'm recording bass and it works great for that . I know it all depends on what sound I'm trying to achieve and if my signals and performance are ok but is this the right sequence of steps I should take when using compression.
thanks
Click to expand...

This is just my opinion but it seems that you are trying to listen with your eyes. Again my opinion but you should be setting the compressor (or anything else in the chain) with your ears based on what sounds good whether it be gain reduction, attack release levels or anything else. Check the meters to make sure your not going to clip the signal etc but what a gain reduction meter is doing or what the lowest and highest points or you channel meters are should not be your acid test for if a compressor is set right generally speaking

YMMV
 
I recommend caution with compression during tracking until you really know what you are doing, but I do compress a little during tracking and at several other stages in the process. My mastering chain may have as many as four dynamics processes going at once, each doing something different. Ultimately the point is to make it sound good. Do whatever it takes to get there.
 
I think the first question back to you is "why"?

Do you know why you're adding compression? Do you hear what the compressor is doing? Or, as Bristol said, are you mixing with your eyes? You mentioned specific ration, attack, and release settings. Why are you using these specific settings? I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing any of this, but what's important is that YOU know why you're doing it.
 
god you guys are cool for giving me such insight, many thanks, I've read about the danger of mixing with my eyes but what I'm doing by looking at the meters is looking at the compressor working and checking if I can hear it working. Basically what I try to achieve is to get a signal that doesnt vary too much in dynamics, depending on what instrument it is, for vocals I like my dynamic range to be tight but not squashed, then with acoustic guitar and electric guitar I would be lighter on compression than my vocals, and with the bass I have to use heavy compression as I suck at playing bass. The settings I mentioned earlier are settings I use as a reference point and I will tweak these where I need to.
As to why I'm using compression, well I'm trying to have each tracks dynamics at a constant level, so when I'm mixing it's easier to identify what frequencies are clashing and to help me decide on pan positon when trying to seperate the mix. And also to make sure I'm not clipping anywhere.
 
sausy1981 said:
And also to make sure I'm not clipping anywhere.
Click to expand...

Everything before this is a matter of taste, but you should be leaving yourself enough headroom that clipping is never an issue that has to be fixed with dynamics processing.
 
Most pros would hesitate to compress during tracking. Tracking is to record the real sound.

My 2 cents.
 
YellowDwarf said:
Most pros would hesitate to compress during tracking. Tracking is to record the real sound.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Hesitate? Not sure that would be the right word. Unless necessary, then yes, don't use. Though there are situations where a preamp with eq, through a compressor (used lightly), can give certain nuances to a track that just seems not possible later ITB.

Unless you have spent much time experimenting with this, and have gear worthy of it, don't use compression inline with your recording track. I myself only use it in limited situations, some vocal tracking and bass guitar. It depends on the source. 98% of the time, I use no compression on the way to DAW.

Unless compression is used to achieve the desired 'tone' on the way in, it is unnecessary. Using compression for volume control on the way in is silly (IMO), in digital recording. If you were recording directly to tape, then this could be a whole different conversation, that would still involve quite a bit of experimentation.
 
simply put, yes there should be nothing wrong with adding compression at tracking stage and Mixing stage.
All you need to do is listen carefully to your recordings to see if they actually need any compression.

G
 
Bristol Posse said:
This is just my opinion but it seems that you are trying to listen with your eyes. Again my opinion but you should be setting the compressor (or anything else in the chain) with your ears based on what sounds good......
Click to expand...

ecktronic said:
All you need to do is listen carefully to your recordings to see if they actually need any compression.
Click to expand...

This is what I was getting at when I said a compressor should be seen and not heard.

If you can hear the places in your track where compression is needed, without looking at the meters, then it's better to re-record, get it right from the source.

Similarly, if you are setting the compressor with your ears, that means you can hear it working, which I am asserting means you are using way too much.

I have noticed that the meters will tell me when the compressor is working, and how hard it is working, before my ears will be able to discern any difference in the sound. If I can see it working on the meters, and I can hear the difference betwen comp in and comp out, then it's too much compressor, or the track needs to be re-recorded.

If I think it sounds good and there is nothing happening on the meters, then the compressor is doing nothing and should be removed from the signal path.

I like to ride that narrow line where I cannot hear any difference between comp in and comp out, yet I can see on the meters that the compressor is very slightly attenuating a stray peak here and there. In the strictest sense, that track should be re-recorded then, hoping for a better and more consistent performance. In the loose sense that I work with at home, I don't have time to re-record it and hope for the best if I want to get to work on time tomorrow, so I get it pretty close, good enough, and let the compressor take the roughest edges off for me......it's mainly a time saver, and can be a mix saver if those roughest edges mean a crackle or an occasional pop in the final mix without the compressor.

It's a tool like any paint brush, use it sparingly. It has meters on it for a reason, use them so that you can compress when needed without hearing it working.
 
I almost never compress because I want to tame the dynamic range. I compress to get the sound of compression. I'm using compression as a tone shaping device.

As for how much and when, do what you have to do to get the sound you want.

BTW 4/1 is not a low ratio, especially if you have the attack as fast as you say you have it. That's pretty much limiting.
 
Nice sentiments but I think it gets more complicated than that.

In the modern world, most music is listened to either in the car or on earbuds while walking down the street--or on a bus or on a train. None of these are good listening environments but the days of only listening to your mixes on good hifi speakers in a quiet living room are long gone.

When you listen in an already noisy environment, you have a choice of either being blasted by the loud bits so you can hear the quiet bits--or setting the peaks at a comfortable level and losing all the quiet subtlety. Or you can use compression.

The trick is to tame the dynamic range without sucking all the life out of the music. Add to this a desire not to hear the the compression breathing and it can be tricky to get right.

I suspect that's the main reason that compression gets so much bad press: it's complicated to learn how to use it. Unlike a lot of effects which can be basically "turn it up until it sounds good", compression has a bunch of different controls all of which interact with each other. On top of that, compression isn't constantly affecting your track--it only acts when the track gets above (or below) a certain level.

I generally suggest that people wanting to learn compression start with reading the appropriate Rane Notes HERE. After that, if your DAW is the sort that has a graphical display for compressor set up (you know, the graph with input level on one axis and output on the other) it can be very useful for beginners to play with that method of settings while listening to the results--but THEN look at the settings resulting from the graphical adjustment.

(Obviously the musical style also comes into this. For example, heavy metal is kind of "naturally compressed" since everything is already at a level of "11" with no dynamic range or subtlety anyway. On the other hand, some classical fans only listen in a quiet, pristine environment and really appreaciate a 50dB dynamic range.)

Compression is a necessary evil for modern listening environments. I guarantee that 99.9% of commercial recordings have used compression--as have pretty well 100% of films, TV programmes and radio shows that you listen to. At very least, it's worth learning how to use it properly.
 
layer compression lightly, for signal strength control. multiple compressors, at multiple locations.

for actual track COLOR and obvious squish, use compressors liberally, and even try limiters.

bottom line is, there is no rule, but there are obvious signal and gain issues you must get good at, to dial it in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top