Us-428

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odie

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Hey folks. I'm a newbie trying to decide which way to go..........computer, digital recorder or sorta do both with the US-428. Anyone used one of those yet? I would appreciate comments, thanx
 
US42GR8

Hey odie,
what would you like to know? I've had the 428 since september, and really find it great... The most important thing to keep in mind is you really want a decent system to get everything to work properly.
Alot of people who have problems dont have the right setup to run it.

Give me a little more to go on, and I can tell you if the 428 is for you or not....
What do you have already?
(i.e. computer setup, audio setup, etc..)

What do you want to be able to do?
(How many tracks, what kind of feature etc...

I will say I'm really happy with the 428 and it works great for me. You also might want to check out the US428 forum on the Tascam bbs ttp://www.tascambbs.com/.

Youll get an idea of what kind of problems you might encounter, and how to avoid/fix them.
 
US-428

OK jflagg
thanx for replying.
my setup: I have a PC and want to do some home recording. I recently downloaded n-track. I want to be able to plug in at least 3 instruments at a time, then mix and add others. I know I could get a Delta 44 or 66 sound card with a breakout box = mix w/ the mouse. But there's something about knobs and dials....
Now, am I right in understanding that the US-428 is just a workstation and that I plug my instruments into it but the music is recorded on the computer using whatever software that comes with it?
You mentioned that a person needs a decent system so that things will work properly. You're talking hard drive, RAM & CPU right? I'm wondering if I should go to a digital hard disk recording system like the Tascam 788 and avoid the computer crashes and having to upgrade my computer. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
odie
 
Re: US-428

You are correct the 428 is a workstation as you suggest, and the music is recorded on the computer.

It comes with Cubasis software, which is a limited version of Cubase. Originally it was designed to allow recording only 1 input at a time. However there is a work around that allows you to record 4 inputs simultaneously. The downside is you are limited to a total of 8 tracks.

Ram, cpu and hard drive speed are prominent issues. The better system you have the more you can get out of it. I would also say you'll want better recording software. Unfortunatly there are no mixer maps I know of for n-tracks, so you might be out of luck there.

The not having to mix with a mouse aspect is what originally attracted me. Also, my previous computer had a built in sound card that would interefere with any pci sound card I put in, so the USB aspect was also part of my decision.

I've spent alot of time working with the various issues to build my system for peak performance.

I think the decision you need to make, is what do you really want to achieve? There are pros and cons to every avenue, and you'll have to weigh those out for yourself. For me I'm a very computer oriented person, so the greater degree of control of the 428 vs a hd based system (like the 788) made the decision a no brainer.

The 428 has at times been quite a headache for me and others. However in retrospect, I don't feel it was wasted time. And even through all the problems I've always been happy with the purchase.

To help you evaluate a little more, go ahead and post your systems specs (processor, ram, hds, etc...) and I can give you a better idea of what you might want to upgrade, or the possible limitations you'll have.
 
US-428

Well, jflagg I have a PC w/ 8 gigs, a 233mhz processor, 32 MB Ram & a SB16 soundcard.

Do have to get a new soundcard to use the US-428? Do you know what other software is compatable? I am not a computer "geek" so I am concerned about problems related to having a computer based system.

Why did you pick the 428 over a hd system? do you know anything about the Tascam 788?

I have thought about going the Delta 44/66 and software route.

What I want to do is to finally get some of the music I have created over the years saved on "tape" ala CD. I have family and friends who are interested in having copies, but I have no plans to get into the music biz. So I guess this is a hobby.

thanx. appreciate your time. odie
 
The US-428 is great, in my opinion. You don't need to worry about what soundcard you have. It routes all audio in and out of the board. So you hook the board into the USB port on the computer, you install the drivers, and you're off. I've been using the program on a Mac with Cubase 5, and it has been great. Although, you may want to upgrade your PC (definitely RAM). Initially, I was running Cubase with 128 megs of RAM on a G3 233 MHz. I had to upgrade to 400 MHz to take full advantage of effects plug-ins and things with no audio latency or skipping. Then again, we're talking Apples to Oranges here (Macs to PC's, no pun intended)... If your projects are small (I was running anywhere from 32 to 64 channels), you shouldn't have a problem.

I have had one problem, that I will post in a different thread you may like to take a look at... I think it's an isolated case.

Rick
 
US-428

Mr Blackthorne. thanx for the info. So the tracks from the 428 are transfered track for track onto the mixer in the computer?

odie
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "transfered track for track onto the mixer in the computer". The way the board works is similar to the way your sound card works. In fact, it replaces your soundcard entirely, in most applications.

You hook the US-428 into the USB port on your system and install the drivers. You may have to do a few configurations in a Control Panel (I had to on the Mac, I've never config'ed a PC for it). There are 2 outputs on the board - line out and phones out - that have volume knobs. That becomes your computer's output source. From then on, most sound, especially in audio-specific applications, will be routed to the US-428 rather than your sound card.

There are also 4 inputs - 2 1/4's and 2 XLR's - which can record simultaneously. The copy of Cubasis that is included with the board can be configured to record all 4 channels at once. There is no Phantom Power, so if your using any powered condenser mics, you'll need a preamp as well.

Once all the tracks are recorded, the Cubasis software does the mixing. All the mixing is done in software, but the 8 hardware faders on the board correspond to the 8 software faders in Cubasis, and work as the controls for those channels accordingly. If you're using the US-428 with Cubase (It's like Cubasis, but it allows mixing of more than 8 channels), the hardware faders work in banks of 8, allowing you to control all the software faders.

The good thing is that since the US-428 is handling all your sound output processing, it frees the computer processor up to do more effects. I found that before using the US-428, I had a lot of audio latency and skipping when using Cubase. Once I got the US-428, that all went away. Of course, audio latency has a lot to do with processor speed as well.

Also, recall that even though there are 8 hardware faders, you can only record up to 4 channels at a time.

Hope this helps out. Feel free to write back or email...

Rick
 
-428

jflagg mentioned there are no "mixer maps" for n-track. excuse my ignorance, what are "mixer maps"?

also is there any problem burning a CD with music recorded onto the computer using the US-428? I mean, all the songs can be mixed and saved on the computer right?

thanx, odie
 
Mixer map

The mixing section of the us-428 is just a bunch of buttons, knobs, and sliders that send information to the multitracking program.

The mixer map is what tells the recording program that when you move the first physical slider you want the program to adjust the volume of channel one.

n-Track allows you to "train" the program to respond to the control surface. Its pretty easy and it works for most of the us-428 mixing options.

The problem I ran into with n-Track and the 428 is that the audio just doesn't work well for me. I tried every configuration that I could think of and, if it didn't crash, it skips, jumps, hisses, pops, and generally sounds buggy. I have no idea why- it works perfectly with Cubase VST 5.

Too bad, too. I would have prefered to n-Track.

Take care,
Chris
 
Well,...

I've had and used a US428, and I hated it. I would not recommend that anyone gets one. It was not stable in it's performance, caused the system to crash, and even worse. I realized that the input mixer section is a scant one trim pot, with no EQ, or anything on input, and the bundled software, Cubasis, was very limited in the way it functioned, and a scant few other software packages run with it at all.

I hated it, but some people for whom it works properly seem to love it. People who are basically DAW oriented might like it, if they can get it to work, but I'm an old analog fanatic, and I hated the US428. I think it's a dog of a product.
 
If you're an analogue fanatic - stay there. No good critisizing something you won't like no matter what.
I have used it - I loved it - and I'm a pro used to working on very high end systems.

What nobody has mentioned as yet is that you can turn the 428 into a controller running the full version of Cubase - that means you can upgrade the 'basic' version at a preferential price, which almost gives you the 428 for nothing, for a multitrack recording and sequencing system.

I had the thing out of the box, up-and-running in 10 minutes flat.
100% brilliant start-up system, expandable, with plenty free and cheap VST plug-ins available.
 
Great, & more power to you.

I bought the US428 with an open mind, and all the best intentions of trying to use it, and integrate it into my existing studio. It's not that I'm "just analog", and I wouldn't like it no matter what, but if the US428 performed half way decently, I might have kept it.

I don't doubt that you're a high end pro, etc, and if the US428 works great for you, first time up, no hassles, then great, & more power to you.

Your (sjoko2's) response does exactly illustrate what I said above, that if the user can install and use the US428 device trouble free, then they usually say they love it. Also, if a person is more DAW oriented in the first place, then they would probably tend to like the US428. I'm not trying to take that away from you, but I'm at least glad to hear that it works right for some people. It didn't work for me.

I've had my concerns about certain computer systems, and their ability to handle 'high end' audio on the USB, which I think varies from computer to computer. I think as computer/soundcard/interface devices go, a PCI based component would probably be more 'robust' (more stable/faster) than a USB audio device.
 
Hey Reel,
I get what you are saying. Regarding your last paragraph, I have concerns about MOST computer recording system's capability to handle quality audio. Nothing to do with data transmission formats in general, its just a fact that you cannot make certain essential elements which are primary requirements for quality digital audio, for budget prices.
As I have posted many times before, digital sound is reliant on quality of A/D and D/A conversion and clock accuracy.
Following that, you are faced with a number of facts:

1 - A soundcard will never facilitate accurate conversions - its to small.
2 - A soundcard will never facilitate an accurate clock - its to small.
3 - All soundcards are cheaper than a decent A/D OR D/A stereo converter - huh?
4 - All soundcards are cheaper than one good synch clock - huh?
5 - Clock rates do NOT transmit accurately via any of the means currently used to transmit data and/or audio plus clock, not even AESII, it simply does NOT WORK

However, if you solve the issues described above, you will have an amazing sounding high end system.

I am not saying the US428 is that system, but it is one step in the right direction, and a perfect start-up system which can be expanded and improved upon in a very cost effective manner.
 
You obviously seem to know your stuff on this issue.

But, I'm confused. Also, I'm not a pro recording engineer.

By 'other, non US428 pci devices' I was referring to something like the MAudio Delta 1010, the Digi001, or other similar thing. I've seen a nice Roland 24bit/24track package hardware/software, but I forget the name. I just 'assume' (here I go again!), that any of these PCI type devices would likely outperform the US428, or other USB audio devices, but then again, that's an assumption.

I think Tascam has been great about bringing great recording technology to the masses, i.e., home recording. The US428 is not one of my favorite devices, though. I'm sure people in the field may like it, and may have no problems with it, but I did. I may be an isolated case, I don't know what the stats on US428 owners says, but I didn't like it, and would not recommend it. I'm not saying I have all the answers, not at all the case. I'm just me. I don't think it's the case "that just because I'm analog, I wouldn't like it anyway 'cause it's digital" (paraphrasing). I tried very sincerely to work with the US428, and I tried hard to like it, but I could not resolve a number of technical issues, probably due as much to my computer as to the US428. I'm sure every case is different.

Now, technically, don't you think that any of the current digital consumer audio recording (for DAW) products, such as the ones mentioned above, have good, high quality A/D-D/A's? I thought they probably did. If not, what exactly what would you recommend, when referring to "quality A/D's". Is there some brand of standalone unit for this? Without getting too tech-or-spec-heavy, what is the basic setup that you use, or would recommend someone uses.

Do you use a DAW based setup in your studio, or do you have a digital recorder such as the standalone Mackie 24 or the Tascam MX2424? Just curious.
 
I was 100% analogue until about 2 years ago, used to work on Neve's, SSL's and lately AMEK 9098's for decades, but also worked with Neve Capricorn's and Stagetec digital consoles, going to 2" machines.

Now I've made the 'switch', our production company's new studio will be 100% digital, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I can now get better results using digital than I ever did with analogue.
Our new set-up is all Pro Tools, with computers and drives positioned remote, in a central machine room, serving eventually 2 control rooms and one project room. We use rackmount hot-swappeable drives, 72GB each.

The secret of digital is converters and synchronization, and no, none of the products you mentioned have decent converters, neither do they have accurate clocks.
You can buy a stereo pair of decent converters for between 7 and 900 $, which is already almost double the cost of a 428, which comes with software!
My Pro Tools I/O consists of a digidesign 888/24, which I use purely as an I/O - I don't use its converters, and a 24 bit digidesign ADAT I/O. This gives me a total of 24 simultaneous inputs. For conversion I use Lucid ADA 8824's, Lucid AD9624's and DA9624's. For synchro I use the new Lucid SSG192, which is simply the best, most accurate clock on the market.

In recommending the 428, my whole thing is that it is brilliant for the money, it will teach you how to use a DAW with a controller, you can expand the software to a pretty comprehensive package very cheaply. Naturally, you cannot compare it with any system costing thousands - even tough - I've heard systems costing thousands sound much worse than a 428!
 
Well guys I MUST emphaise on a slightly off topic note that version two drivers are now available for the 428 and they are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. Without them my friend had all sorts of wierd audio glitches, recording problems etc. Then by going to www.tascam.com and getting the new drivers and installing them it works quite literally perfectly now.

Sound on Sound magazine also had major problems with the shipping drivers that came with it. They did the same and have not had any problems so far.
 
4 Tracks at the same time?

How is it that you can configure Cubasis to do 4 tracks? I'd love to know, i'm thinking about buying an upgrade or other program just b/c i want another 2 tracks... and do they have to be stereo pairs?

Also, when i was bouncing a stereo recording through channels 1+2 onto Cubasis, it was coming through in mono, then when i panned the source left, the sound stayed centered, but was quieter, then when i panned left, it became louder. I went ahead and recorded it, and it came out fine. Things were panned where they were supposed to be and it sounded fine. I guess it was a monitoring input problem... any ideas??

Besides that I LOVE the 428 for the money and i've used Pro Tools and 02R's and other cool stuff like that. Great job Tascam.

Thanks in advance

Chris
 
I haven't got one here, but as far as I remember the 428 has 4 inputs which can be used simultaniusly.
Cubase will, of cause, record four or more tracks simultaniously, just assign your inputs correctly (look in the manual?)
For 50% off you can buy the full version of Cubase
 
Hmmm...

Actually, sjoko, the Cubasis software that came with the 428 states that it is only capable recording 2 tracks at a time, if you wanted to do more than that, you have to upgrade to Cubase or use another compatible program that is $200 :mad: +/- and they are stereo paired at that, so i never tried messing around with Cubasis to get it to record 4 at a time.... but people say it can be done, so hook me up with the 411!!

:D
 
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