Upgrading my overhead mics

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mplnckstrat

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Well, at this point I'm happy with most of the mics I've purchased. The Shure kit w/ a Beta-52 and 3 SM-57s is just dandy. And I like the MXL 2001-P I picked up for $89.00 (figured it was a good value at that price), but I need to upgrade my overheads. Right now, I'm using a pair of Samson C01 Pencil condensers. This is by far the weakest link in my recording chain. I can drop about $500 or a bit more on new OH mics, but am not sure where to go. I'd like some flexibility with what I buy, as in Overheads, acoustic guitar, and other assorted applications including live recording.
I'm divided between a few possibilities: The Rode Nt-1 in a pair, the AKG C-1000s, or perhaps even a Rode NT-4 stereo mic. Anyone got some good advice for me. I'm open to suggestions.
 
MXL 2001s are cool. Just get a second one . I use them as drum overs all the time for a catch - all natural drum sound. I also have a pair of C1000s that I use when I'm aiming to get more of the cymbals.

As far as your shure mics, I LOVE my 52, and 57s are a natural on toms and snare. Aim your 57s on axis (perpendicular) to the tom head and about a half inch above, and you will get a great sound (just the toms, not the snr). Bump up your 52 a few dB at 4.8K for that smack-attack from the beater.
 
If you go Rode, I'm of the opinion that the stereo mic in a studio is a waste of money. That mic costs more and accomplishes ONE thing that a pair of NT5's will.

The NT5's are somewhat darker SDC's, I like them a lot for overheads but am not a huge fan on acoustic guitar. Some folks are though.

I know Chessrock is a big fan of the CAD M179's, and I am too. They're quite beefy on drums. I am not a big fan of them on strummed acoustic, but do use them a bit on heavier picked acoustic and acoustic lead stuff for a different flavor and a bigger sound.

My favorite acoustic mic right now is the Oktava MC012's. But not a huge fan of them on overheads! Sorry...this sounds confusing I guess...but I think they're kind of grainy on overheads, just not real smooth sounding which is what I personally prefer.

So hmmm, I guess my suggestions might be:

(2) CAD M179's (for overheads and a different acoustic sound)

and

(2) Oktava MC012's (for acoustic and maybe a different overhead sound)

That's in your $500 range anyhow.

War

Warren Dent
www.frontendaudio.com
 
BTW:
C1000s are GREAT on acoustic guitar, too. Also used 'em on violins, live 2 trak recordings, vocals (believe it or not) and horns live.

Used 2001s for drums, vox and also on guit amps. Used them on acoustic guitar, too- worked and sounded fine, but I liked the C1000s better on acoustic.
 
most folks go for small-med diameter condensers for overheads. Lots of accuracy and easier to position. Some folks do like the Oktavas and the MXL 603 is also a popular choice. There are in fact a lot of choices you can get a pair of for way less than 500.
 
Some sleepers in the $500 and under category . . .

In the $500 and under / pair category, I think there are some real sleepers out there worth mentioning . . .


The ones I really like to look out for are the byproducts of the "good product" / "bad marketing" syndrome. Falling right in to this category is the mack daddy of all sleepers -- The Audio Technica AE-5100. It's a medium-diaphragm condenser and I think full compass is blowing them out for like $150 a piece. They're basically just really good, mostly-neutral sounding studio condensers that never caught on in the marketplace because AT has been trying to pimp them to the live sound market. Anyway, they're supposed to be very similar to their 4051's, which are outstanding . . . only major difference being they're electrets (with a slightly larger diaphragm), so be forewarned of that. Still, $150 is just silly. They're worth at least 2-3 times that.

If you're jonesing for an Earthworks kind of deal that's just ultra-realistic and ruler flat . . . you might think about picking up a pair of omni-directional reference type mics. Stapes is a company that's really been getting rave reviews lately at some of the other boards. www.stapesaudio.com Word has it they're every bit as good as similar offerings from Earthworks and T.H.E. , only much more affordable at $500 or so a pair. Another consideration is the Audix TR-40, which is also a very under-rated small condenser in the same price bracket. Same general idea (omni w/ flat response) as the Earthworks or Stapes.

Another sleeper worth mentioning is the Crown CM-700. Great SPL handling . . . smooth high end response. Compact; easy to fit in tight spaces.

If I were in the market again for a pair of drum overheads, I think I'd just go jump on that full compass deal for the AT AE-5100's. With a budget of $500 or less, I'd either do that or I'd pick up a matched pair of Oktave MC012's from the Sound Room @ www.oktava.com
 
Thanks for the input guys. Looks like the Rode NT-4 isn't getting any push, so I'll shelf that idea. For you experienced guys out there, is the suggestion of getting another MXL-2001P a worthy one? And what's the general concensus on Audio-Technica mics? I don't own any, and am not familiar with them. Are they on par with my shures....are they better.....do they compare well with the NT-1 or AKGC1000??? Keep it comin' please!
 
Well . . . since you ask, I am going to be really blunt with you. :D


Strictly as an overhead mic for mic'ing drums . . . the NT1 is about the worst mic I could ever think of.

The C-1000 is about the second worst mic I could think of.

And rounding out the list, the 2001 is probably about the third worst.

Whoever is giving you your advice should be fired. :D Of the ones you're mentioning, the NT-4 is probably the best bet. I'm already going treble deaf and my head is starting to pound just from the very thought of tracking those drums with an NT-1. Ditto for the other two. Maybe if the set has no cymbals . . . I could maybe see that.

The trick is to use something a little darker . . . or at least more flat / neutral so as to not exaggerate the natural harshness that is apparent in most cymbals. The ones you mention all have noticeable treble boosts inherent in their design that may cause problems when mic'ing bright sources like drum overheads.
 
M179s are a fabulous deal. Look around on ebay, and you can get them for less than 150 bucks new. I got two for 130 each and they're just as good as the ones I got almost two years ago... (though there has been mention of worse CAD QC these days...hasn't affected me yet... knock on wood...)

That mention of those AE5100s is pretty cool. Sounded much better than some 3031s I was also trying out during the same session on drum OH. There was mention of the 4051s in this month's Electronic Musician...did quite well against a bunch of other higher-end SDC pairs...

AT seems to be quite underrated. Their cheaper 30 series seems to be the one that defines them in the ears of most guys, and I really can't stand the 3035. Didn't like the 3060 I tried. OTOH, they make some great cheap dynamics in the MB line, and the 40 series mics seem to all rock the proverbial casbah.

I personally don't like the 2001. OTOH, I rather like the 1006s as drum OH. Disliked it on guitar, though. Sounded thin with surprisingly little bottom for an LD. I don't really use my 1006s except for dialog and doubling singers, but they're good on overheads.
 
Chess
NT4? c'mon, you're gonna limit yourself to the preset stereo field of a single stereo mic?
I was trying to be practical in my suggestions.... he already has a 2001, for a hundred bux, he has a pair.
BTW: my post on C1000s also noted their versitility. I want my mics to earn their keep
 
C-1000's are among my favs for snare or toms, they suck large as an overhead or on acoustic instruments.
 
ya know, I could understand people not likin' C1000s for drum o/h (a little harsh, maybe), but I think they work great on acoustic inst. Its all in the placement
 
I just have a lot of mics that blow them away for acoustics. If it wasn't for toms and snare (and the occassional amp) I'd sell the C-1000s.
 
guido #2 said:
he already has a 2001, for a hundred bux, he has a pair.
Click to expand...

I've tried a 2001 on drum overhead before, and for the sake of my hearing, I'd never do it again. :D Besides, the guy mentioned he has some extra money to play with -- why not use it to get something that he'll be happy with for a while?

I'd only recommend a 2001 to someone who's kind of a tweakhead, because then at least you could do the Royer mod and turn it in to a nice mic . . . but there's just too many options at $500 that are actually pretty good right out of the box that you don't have to mess with.
 
I missed the $500 budget thing.... oops!
But I still stand by two mics are better than one stereo mic, especially in a small mic locker.
 
Track Rat
What are you using that you love so much on acoustics?
 
Neumann KM-184's, Earthworks SR-71's, Octava MC-012's, AT-4033's.
 
184s, used'em, hate 'em and the octava copies are worse. Never used the Earthwrx. Love AT.
All just my opinion. Thanx for yours :^)
 
Like you say, it's all in positioning and most of all, a matter of taste. If your experience with Octava is with the guitar mart selection, I can understand your feelings about them. I bought all my Octava mics from Taylor Johnson from Sound Room. There's a BIG difference in quality control on the Octavas. The good ones are VERY good and the others, well, they suck for sure. Sound Room mics get a high degree of scrutiny. Very nice mics.
 
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