Unlimited PRG Changes in a Clip (Mac)

[dintymoore]

Ableton Live has many problems in the MIDI department. It really seems like they ran out of money when it came to MIDI - it simply isn't finished.

One of the most obnoxious things was that a clip cannot have more than 1 PRG change (!). If only Ableton handled MIDI as well as my Commodore 64 did in 1983.

Last night a figured out a simple remedy and now I can do unlimited PRG changes within a clip. I used an unused CC, CC# 044, and use MidiPipe to turn that into a PRG change. Simple, I don't know what took me so long. It looks like this:
NOTE: THIS DIDN'T WORK! SEE POST #5 BELOW

 

[kcearl]

i doubt ill ever be needing this kind of indepth midi stuff but great your posting it if others will......i think even ableton will admit they are trailing behind here...though saying that most of the Ableton board are complaining about crashes...I wish Id stayed back with version 8.0.5 because every upudate since then has become less and less stable

 

[dintymoore]

I've upgraded a few times and each time the old version remains on my hard drive.

I have maybe 4 versions of Live on my computer and I think I remember reading that you can run any, and that if there's a problem after you upgrade you can just go back to the earlier version.

So you might want to try using the one that worked better.

 

[kcearl]

yeah i was thinking that...i like some of the presets that have come in the later versions and external instruments seem a little more stable but it shuts down around three times a week since 8.1.3 and thats pretty unacceptable

Ill maybe roll back to 8.1.0 as less than that wont run with MAX and that looks like a pretty interesting idea...bit pricey mind you

 

[dintymoore]

update: the above solution in post #1 didn't work. This does:

here's the tools:
1. Midi In - I use MidiPipe input 1 and route Ableton tracks to that
2. Message Filter - lets only CC's thru
3. Message Convertor - changes CC# 44 to a Note Off message
4. Message Filter - lets only note messages thru
5. Velocity Modifier - needed since the first program on a Roland is 1
6. Message Convertor - changes note off messages to program change messages - you need to check the "exchange data bytes" box at the bottom
7. Midi Out - I send it to my Roland SC-8850

I realize that this won't mean much to many people but there is a trick in the above that is the main one in MidiPipe: change a CC message into a note and then you can tweak that note and then turn it back into a CC message. By that method you can program just about anything to do anything regardless of what MIDI app you are using.

 

[dintymoore]

UPDATE: for unknown reasons, Ableton Live is changing all my CC#000 to CC#064. It will not play Standard MIDI files correctly.

I have to say that since I've been into MIDI (1983) I have not seen a program that is as fucked up as Ableton Live. It is way, way off.

You wouldn't believe how much time this program has wasted of mine, and not because I'm learning to deal with the program, but learning to work around their mistakes.

This is not user error, this is programmer error... they honestly, not exaggerating, should be paying me, and shouldn't be charging more than $20 for how "finished" it is.

- end of transmission -

 

[dintymoore]

Update:

I have got a new way of doing this that is more stable although Ableton continues to be somewhat unpredictable.

To send a program change, or several, within a clip I now use notes #126 and 127. With MidiPipe, I am able to change note #126 to CC# 000 and note #127 to CC# 032. Then I use an Aftertouch message converted by MidiPipe to a program change to send out the program change.

I program all my MIDI files in Cubase and drag them into Ableton. In Cubase List Edit it looks like this:

Although this is better, having lived with both ways of doing this for a few months I have to say it doesn't always work and there seems to be no rhyme or reason for it. I'd say it works 95% of the time...

When it fails is when one scene plays and then the "next" command triggers the next scene. When I've manually triggered a scene it has never failed.