University project studio, what to get??

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Drumkid503

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the music department at my school just got a $20,000 grant to build a small project studio.
we have two 14x20 ish rooms to use, no line of sight (yet). we can buy whatever we want but it has to use Pro Tools (LE or M-Powered).

our music department is mainly classical music with a new and growing jazz program. so mostly it will be used to record solo artists on symphonic and orchestral instruments and vocalists, as well as chamber ensembles and jazz ensembles. despite the classical conservatory I go to i want this studio to be rock band ready (that's what I do).

I'm looking for the computer/audio interface to do all the work, DSP monitoring etc...
we already have some powered monitors.
I want ATLEAST 12 mic preamps. preferably 16
I want a control surface so I don't have to mouse mix
I am only looking to spend MAX 13,000 on hardware and the rest for mics, furniture, and to make the room sound good.

It has to be simple so people with little audio background can maybe figure it out/remember how to run it.

I've been researching for a couple of days and this is what I have so far.
I would very much appreciate everyone's opinion and comments

computer
dual 2.6 mac G5
2 gb Ram (maybe 4?)
500 HDD I'll expand as needed.
dual wide screens (probably viewsonic or dell, mac too expensive)

interface
two m-audio delta 1010
Running Pro Tools M-Powered
mackie MCU (control surface)

Other stuff
two M-Audio Octane pre amps
I might also get a small midi interface the Delta1010 has one but I'm afraid to slow it down by running too much through it.

that's really as far as I've gotten so far. Does anyone know about the Delta 1010 its kinda old I can't find any reviews for it that aren't 5+ years old. i don't want to have to be limited by my interface/computer on what I can do

should i just got digi 002/003? I heard the pre amps are lame.

should I swap out any gear? this stuff seems to do what I want for cheap, and still be decent. thoughts?
 
get a pair of mics and pres for recording the orchestera, jazz bands, etc. something really nice. maybe a pair of 414's and a RNP (stepped controls). I would go for at least one re-20 (bass, etc), say 3 sennheiser 421's (for horns), maybe a pair of shure sm81's (for strings). I would spend the rest on a neotek and a pair of genelecs and be done with it.
 
Don't forget cables, snakes, power strips, and so forth. And a rack and/or cases for your new gear. And mic stands. Leave at least a grand for that stuff if you go small. If you go for 12-16 channels, make it two grand.
 
Drumkid503 said:
...I am only looking to spend MAX 13,000 on hardware and the rest for mics, furniture, and to make the room sound good...
Click to expand...

pretty sure i mentioned spending money on the room, though 7,000 for all that business isn't a lot

I found out from my advisor (who is overseeing the whole studio thing) that this studio is really only temporary and in a couple years and after a little more fund raising we are tearing downs walls for fancy business and a bunch of protools HD gear. I don't understand why everyone has such a hard-on for protools.

so we're now probably going to go with a digi 002 workstation and a rack and some preamps that don't suck. and just a handful of 57s some 58s and a couple of mediocre mics leftover from the old crappy "studio".

furniture isn't too important since its a temporary setup, I don't think we'll even bother with a rack
 
Drumkid503 said:
pretty sure i mentioned spending money on the room, though 7,000 for all that business isn't a lot

I found out from my advisor (who is overseeing the whole studio thing) that this studio is really only temporary and in a couple years and after a little more fund raising we are tearing downs walls for fancy business and a bunch of protools HD gear. I don't understand why everyone has such a hard-on for protools.

so we're now probably going to go with a digi 002 workstation and a rack and some preamps that don't suck. and just a handful of 57s some 58s and a couple of mediocre mics leftover from the old crappy "studio".

furniture isn't too important since its a temporary setup, I don't think we'll even bother with a rack
Click to expand...
Yeah my college has gone protools mad too. Got 2 control 24s with 96i/os, and an 02R96 with 192i/o. Quite a good setup, but it just doesn't feel good. It feels to clinical and precise, if you get me. Like, just really boring, no outboard gear whatsoever, and the standard generic mics etc.

We're a protools certified training centre, so everything is protools and we all hate it. I'd rather get something like you suggested, 2 delta1010s with 8channel pre, then 4 pairs of high quality different sounding pres, or 8channel and 4 channel of the same, with 2 pairs of high good sounding pres, then a good control surface, and monitors etc.

Also, is it just acoustics you need to get for the studio. Check out realtraps, with a $7k budget, you should get some nice suff:

Deluxe Large Room Kit $6,699.99
comes with 4 MondoTraps for bass trapping in wall-wall corners, plus 4 Tri-Corner traps, plus 6 MiniTraps for wall-ceiling corners, plus 4 RFZ panels for front and surround side wall reflections, plus 4 Diffusors for the rear wall, plus 3 HF MiniTraps for ceiling reflections from the front left, center, and right speakers
 
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Drumkid503 said:
so we're now probably going to go with a digi 002 workstation and a rack and some preamps that don't suck. and just a handful of 57s some 58s and a couple of mediocre mics leftover from the old crappy "studio".

furniture isn't too important since its a temporary setup, I don't think we'll even bother with a rack
Click to expand...

great. so you're going to spend $20k and still have a setup that sounds like ass. good thinking. :D
 
FALKEN said:
great. so you're going to spend $20k and still have a setup that sounds like ass. good thinking. :D
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it seems like the project is to design a studio, but they are upgrading the studio for real, but only temporarily.
 
FALKEN said:
great. so you're going to spend $20k and still have a setup that sounds like ass. good thinking. :D
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well, it's only going to cost about 9,000 for everything now, but yeah I guess so. thanks
 
Drumkid503 said:
well, it's only going to cost about 9,000 for everything now, but yeah I guess so. thanks
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9k for what the college is getting? But you've still gota a 20k project? If i had 9k, it wouldn't sound like ass...
 
My first thought is how did they get 20 grand when they dont even have a clue what to buy? :confused: I mean, how do you support your position of "need"?
 
Alesis hd24 1200.00
(3) octopre LE preamps (thats 24 channels of pre's) 2400.00
(6) sm57's 350.00
(1) D112 kick mic 200.00
(4) sure ksm27 1200.00
(2) AT4033 600.00
(1) COPY SONAR 5 500.00
(1) motu 2408mkIII audio interface/soundcard 950.00

Watching people that dont know what the hell there are doing buying studio gear......priceless. :p
 
jmorris said:
Watching people that dont know what the hell there are doing buying studio gear......priceless. :p
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hey smartass,

I'm not 100% in love with your tone right now. Of course I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a student with very little experience, that's why I'm asking for help.

and I don't know what
drumkid503 said:
...we can buy whatever we want but it has to use Pro Tools (LE or M-Powered).
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means to you, but what I meant was we MUST use Protools. At a private university you have to deal with a lot of politics and we have to use protools to appease the rest of the faculty or else we lose support/$$$$.

so yeah i'm sure that gear is great. whatever, it's not an option.

I get it, no one in this forum likes pro tools. big surprise.
I'm sure those people are all too busy getting work to spend their time in forums.

I thought maybe I could get some helpful advice, but hey, my bad.

thanks for the help.
 
hey man I was trying to help you. you have 20k to spend and you are saying "we're just going to use some 57s and whatever else is lying around, and a pair of delta 1010s". I am sorry you don't have any point of reference other than your budget recording background, but that gear is pretty much worthless for getting any kind of results. period. yeah, I said it. What you ought to be doing is getting good pieces that will last and not need to be upgraded for many years. meaning not delta 1010s. meaning not 57s to record all of the music you might find at a university! Look nobody can educate you on this stuff in a few posts on a forum. It takes months and years to learn. The first place to NOT skimp is converters. forget the deltas. they suck balls. Look at digi's better offerings. Maybe even pair one of them up with an apogee rosetta 800. Get good mics to record all of the ensembles at your school! Good condensers for strings and orchestras. good dynamics for horns and marching band. why skimp? I recommended a console because it would give you all of the preamps and eq's you would need, as well as a mixing solution that will work with pro-tools. Definitely get good monitors. how are you going to mix, with headphones? if you really want to spend 20 g's on gear maybe you should consider hiring a professional.
 
Drumkid503 said:
hey smartass,

I'm not 100% in love with your tone right now. Of course I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a student with very little experience, that's why I'm asking for help.

and I don't know what

means to you, but what I meant was we MUST use Protools. At a private university you have to deal with a lot of politics and we have to use protools to appease the rest of the faculty or else we lose support/$$$$.

so yeah i'm sure that gear is great. whatever, it's not an option.

I get it, no one in this forum likes pro tools. big surprise.
I'm sure those people are all too busy getting work to spend their time in forums.

I thought maybe I could get some helpful advice, but hey, my bad.

thanks for the help.
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Hey, nice Gieco comercial quote byt the way. And I was NOT refering to YOU, but your SCHOOL with my comments! How can a school get a grant for 20 grand when they do not seem to have a clue at all what they are doing? How do you get one of these grants? Typically, to get a grant you have to show need and ability, the ability your school seems to be lacking!
 
I don't wanna get into the bashing aspect of this either but I'm concerned that if this is government supported college, why are they handing over the reigns of this budget and design to someone that doesn't have a strong background in studio setup and operation. Just currious.

Secondly, I too am suprised that the music department would hand over $20K without first seeing a plan with a level of expectation in performance. I guess that buggs me most but, oh well.

Again, not to get into a pissin' contest but I think that it would be in everyone's best interest to hire a pro in the field for a one day consultation for the basics. Even if you simply contacted a local studio owner and asked him to come by and have a look at the facility. Who knows, you might even get it for free if you offer to put up a advertising fliers on the bulletin boards.

Wish you best of luck in this project. It's a considerable undertaking. If it were me, I'd be worried that if there is a level of expectation and what if...it didn't work out a expected and everyone thought I just burned up the bank roll.
 
punkin said:
I don't wanna get into the bashing aspect of this either but I'm concerned that if this is government supported college, why are they handing over the reigns of this budget and design to someone that doesn't have a strong background in studio setup and operation. Just currious.

Secondly, I too am suprised that the music department would hand over $20K without first seeing a plan with a level of expectation in performance. I guess that buggs me most but, oh well.

Again, not to get into a pissin' contest but I think that it would be in everyone's best interest to hire a pro in the field for a one day consultation for the basics. Even if you simply contacted a local studio owner and asked him to come by and have a look at the facility. Who knows, you might even get it for free if you offer to put up a advertising fliers on the bulletin boards.

Wish you best of luck in this project. It's a considerable undertaking. If it were me, I'd be worried that if there is a level of expectation and what if...it didn't work out a expected and everyone thought I just burned up the bank roll.
Click to expand...
Again, from where i see it, the school has 9k or sumthin to work with, but they as a project for a class are being asked to design a studio for 20k, not that it'll ever get built, just so they can show that they have the right knowledge to do so.
 
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