understanding when and where to use balanced vs unbalanced

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nick The Man
  • Start date Start date
Nick The Man

Nick The Man

New member
this topic has always confused me.. ive only taken my researching on this topic to the point where i understood that TRS balanced was stereo and TS unbalanced was mono. other than that im pretty much lost and id like to learn where and when to use balanced compared to unbalanced..?? im clueluss.. is it possible to have a TRS unbalanced??

lets take a insert cable for instance, it is a TRS side that splits into 2 TS jacks. so that would mean it goes from balanced to 2 unbalanced.. right?
 
Rane has a really excellent guide on this very subject that they include with all their gear. I'm sure it's just a Google search away......
 
The short form is that balanced connections use 3 wires, a positive and negative, which share a common ground. It has nothing to do with mono and stereo, except that "balanced" cables (it is really the output that is balanced or not, not the cable) have 3 conductors, typically XLR 3 pin, or TRS (tip-ring-sleeve). There are only 2 practical differences in the real world. One, using unbalanced connections, you lose about 6db of signal, which in most cases, is not significant, and two, unbalanced connections suffer from increased noise and a degradation of signal to noise ratio when used on long runs of cable, beginning at about 10 feet or so. Unbalanced connections are not a problem unless longer distances are involved, or where you are using a tremendous amount of gain.
As a rule of thumb, balanced connections are used whenever possible, because they have no disadvantages, but some units, such as an FMR Audio RNC compressor, are just unbalanced units. If you are hooking up your RNC with a couple of 3 foot cables, it doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference. Hope that helps.-Richie
 
Nick The Man said:
this topic has always confused me.. ive only taken my researching on this topic to the point where i understood that TRS balanced was stereo and TS unbalanced was mono.
Click to expand...

A TRS cable can carry a stereo signal, such as a headphone cable, because it has two conductors. But a TRS cable used in a balanced configuration is going to be carrying a mono signal.

Nick The Man said:
other than that im pretty much lost and id like to learn where and when to use balanced compared to unbalanced..?? im clueluss.. is it possible to have a TRS unbalanced??
Click to expand...

If your gear has balanced connections use balanced cables. If it doesn't don't. It's pretty much that simple. If one piece is balanced and the other isn't, most likely the balanced piece will have instructions telling you how to connect it to unbalanced gear


Nick The Man said:
lets take a insert cable for instance, it is a TRS side that splits into 2 TS jacks. so that would mean it goes from balanced to 2 unbalanced.. right?
Click to expand...

No. An insert cable is two unbalanced lines sharing a common return.

A TRS connection doesn't always mean stereo or balanced.
 
To add to what has already been said, a balanced cable (three wire) carries the exact same (output) signal twice, using two of the wires (the other wire is for ground). There is one difference between the two (otherwise identical) output signals. One is reversed from the other (it's polarity is switched). There's a reason for this, but let's save that for another day.
 
Also, balanced lines are less apt to be influenced by RFI and EMI resulting in a more quiet signal. Richard and boingo said it best. You can get into cable that is balanced known as "star quad" which a bit more robust in eliminating unwanted noise in a signal.
 
Well when useing TRS Insert Jacks One of the 3 wires Caries the input and the other caries the output and there is the ground, Both are Unballanced.....

:)
 
sdelsolray said:
To add to what has already been said, a balanced cable (three wire) carries the exact same (output) signal twice, using two of the wires (the other wire is for ground). There is one difference between the two (otherwise identical) output signals. One is reversed from the other (it's polarity is switched). There's a reason for this, but let's save that for another day.
Click to expand...


hey man thanks for the reply but you don't need to treat me like an idiot.. "i think" i know alot about audio and recording it, i just never got this concept.. i understand destructive interference and phase cancellation so we don't need to save it for another day. Not to come off as an asshole, don't want to start anything just wanted to straighten that out
 
alright guys thanks for all the great replies .. with all of these replies and my trustworthy "home recording for dummies" (thanks santa) i know have a much better understanding of cabling.. and now realize i need to save some money for some new cables (think ill wire up the right way this time) ;)
 
Nick The Man said:
alright guys thanks for all the great replies..
Click to expand...

I'm going to sigh again.....

(sigh)....

I hate to say it, but there is more bad and wrong info in this thread than there is good.
 
Nick The Man said:
i understand destructive interference and phase cancellation so we don't need to save it for another day.
Click to expand...

Neither of which have anything to do with balancing.
 
boingoman said:
I'm going to sigh again.....

(sigh)....

I hate to say it, but there is more bad and wrong info in this thread than there is good.
Click to expand...

lol well im relying on the basic facts that i read out of the book.. it did a good job of explaining the different types of cabling and so on, things are clearer than they were before at least
 
boingoman said:
Neither of which have anything to do with balancing.
Click to expand...

i know but he was talking about on a TRS cable how there is a second signal with its polarity switched, i know that is to cancel any noise made by logn runs, but he was acting as if i wouldnt know.
 
Nick The Man said:
i know but he was talking about on a TRS cable how there is a second signal with its polarity switched, i know that is to cancel any noise made by logn runs, but he was acting as if i wouldnt know.
Click to expand...

Yep. I think maybe he was just heightening the drama!! :p That aside, a couple things....

That second signal has nothing to do with noise cancellation.

Also, not every balanced circuit uses two signals. They all, however, have two conductors. Because it's the input that blocks the noise, and the noise needs to hit both the + and the - of that input.

Sorry if you already knew that.
 
boingoman said:
Yep. I think maybe he was just heightening the drama!! :p That aside, a couple things....

That second signal has nothing to do with noise cancellation.

Also, not every balanced circuit uses two signals. They all, however, have two conductors. Because it's the input that blocks the noise, and the noise needs to hit both the + and the - of that input.

Sorry if you already knew that.
Click to expand...

ohhh ok yeah i see what your saying, no i didnt already know that, thanks
 
Minion said:
Well when useing TRS Insert Jacks One of the 3 wires Caries the input and the other caries the output and there is the ground, Both are Unballanced.....

:)
Click to expand...

Yes but it is using 2 channels for audio which is functionally the same as stereo. I realize it's not technically stereo but we are using the term interchangably with 2 channel audio.
 
boingoman said:
Yep. I think maybe he was just heightening the drama!! :p That aside, a couple things....

That second signal has nothing to do with noise cancellation.

Also, not every balanced circuit uses two signals. They all, however, have two conductors. Because it's the input that blocks the noise, and the noise needs to hit both the + and the - of that input.

Sorry if you already knew that.
Click to expand...

What are you going on about? Balanced lines do use an inverted signal on the other channel to reduce noise. Anything else isn't truly "balanced". Yes, the circuitry actually does the unbalancing at the input end but the cable is all part of the circuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top