Under-rated Lyricists

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LimoWreck

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Yup.. I stole this idea from the strings section.

I think talking about why we admire certain artists might help us in our efforts to improve our own writing.

What lyrics and/or lyricists do you think are tragically under-rated? Why?


I would have to say Chris Cornell. He gets a lot of credit for being a rock god. Soundgarden was #14 on the top 100 hard rock bands of all time (VH1). However, when they discussed the band, they only talked about how hard their music was and how great his voice was. I think the guy is a literary genius and I only ever hear anyone mention this talent in the occasional forum. His use of metaphor absolutely floors me. He has a flare for imagery that paints pictures in my mind unlike any writer (well, maybe Tom Waits) I have ever encountered. He alternates between rhyme and free-verse often in the same song. If you removed the music, his writing could easily stand as poetry on its own.


4th of July
Chris Cornell

Shower in the dark day
Clean sparks diving down
Cool in the waterway
Where the baptized drown
Naked in the cold sun
Breathing life like fire
Thought I was the only one
But that was just a lie

Cause I heard it in the wind
And I saw it in the sky
And I thought it was the end
And I thought it was the 4th of July

Pale in the flare light
The scared light cracks & disappears
And leads the scorched ones here
And everywhere no one cares
The fire is spreading
And no one wants to speak about it
Down in the hole
Jesus tries to crack a smile
Beneath another shovel load

And I heard it in the wind
And I saw it in the sky
And I thought it was the end
And I thought it was the 4th of July

Now I'm in control
Now I'm in the fall out
Once asleep but now I stand
And I still remember
Your sweet everything
Light a Roman candle
And hold it in your hand

Cause I heard it in the wind
And I saw it in the sky
And I thought it was the end
And I thought it was the 4th of July
​



Also, I really didn't like the band 'Live' (still don't). I found the singer annoying and weird and I didn't like the way he tried to write from the female perspective. Tonight I was looking through another forum and stumbled upon someone's sig and was really impressed. It kinda falls apart at the chorus and into the second verse so I'll only post the first section.


I Alone
Live

It's easier not to be wise
And measure these things by your brains.
I sank into Eden with you.
Alone in the church by and by.

I'll read to you here, save your eyes.
You'll need them, your boat is at sea.
Your anchor is up, you've been swept away
And the greatest of teachers won't hesitate
To leave you there, by yourself,
Chained to fate.
​
​

I think that's really good writing. I like his use of colloquialism. Nice images. I like that his concepts expand beyond a single line. Again, nice imagery... I really like writing where the last line of a verse is not indicated by the first line. It's very interesting.
 
With regards to the band Live and lyrics, I contend that the word "placenta" should never EVER make its way into a rock song.
 
......literary genius may be taking it a little too far in my book. i'm not saying he sucks but I dont think hes a literary genius. half the time when you put enough metaphors in there then you lose the casual listener....some people want to listen to a song and try to relate, others listen to relax. others look for the meaning in everything the person says.....those who look for meaning usually end up calling some songwriters literary geniuses. lol i meant nothing against you but sometimes i dont have the patience to decipher meanings...i listen for the music...if i like the music then I'll go back and read the words....if i still like it then its cool. however some songs are put in the disposable bin right after i hear them....the song you laid out......I might have heard it but didnt care to remember. i guess literary genius is in the eye and ear of the beholder.
 
lol and as for live......i liked the music enough to buy the cd......listening to the lyrics............i agree placenta just doesnt have a "i wanna sing along!" feel....and I'm sure that alot of other lyricists feel this saying to be an insult but here it goes again. "I like the music"
 
LimoWreck said:
His use of metaphor absolutely floors me. He has a flare for imagery that paints pictures in my mind unlike any writer
Click to expand...

The first Soundgarden tune I heard was "Big Dumb Sex" :eek:
 
I agree, placenta does not belong in a song... lol... which is why I have never purchased anything by Live. Also, I hate it when men write from a female perspective... it really pisses me off. I don't write about the pain of having testicles and I don't want to hear some guy singing like he knows what it is to be female.

As far as Cornell being a genius.. I stand by it. Anyone can use metaphor, but not everyone can use it well. I think a lot of writers use it just for the sake of using it (because it sounds cool). It's a trick to consistantly use metaphor in a way that is message-driven. Using literary device for the sake of its sound is how rock cliches are born.

If you are listening for music purely for the sake of relaxing and if lyrics are not necessarily all that significant to you then you probably aren't the best judge of what is or is not genius. I don't really pay attention to drumming so I am not the best judge of its excellence.


Of course people who are looking for meaning are the ones who are going to find it. Just because meaning is not important to you doesn't mean those who seek it are invalid. And when they find it, it isn't necessarily a product of their imagination. Literary genius IS in the eye of the beholder... if you choose not to behold it, you'll never recognize it.

MSHilarious... Big Dumb Sex is pre-Badmotorfinger. I agree the early writings are somewhat lacking in the depth department. After the death of Andrew Woods, Cornell started producing some very dark, thoughtful, introspective and socially-conscious work. That's one of the things I love most about the Seattle movement... there is this huge backstory behind all these bands and you can see the impact of the events transpiring in the work they produced.
 
mshilarious said:
The first Soundgarden tune I heard was "Big Dumb Sex" :eek:
Click to expand...
And that song may have the best lyrical chorus in music history.
 
Ray Charles gets credit for being an amazing singer, pianist and performer but he also wrote some of the most beautiful lyrics ever.
The same can be said for Otis Redding who wrote a lot of songs, besides "Dock of the Bay", that are amazing.
And you can't forget Fats Domino:
"What I'm gonna do
is hard to tell.
I'm not gonna kill myself
though I might as well.
Poor me..."
 
David Alan Coe.

His, larger than life, Outlaw biker and ex-con image has overshadowed his talent as a lyrisist.

"she was like the paper bag,
that once had held the wine,
thrown without caution...to the wind.
I left her like the empty bottle,
lying on the ground,
swearing I would pick her up again.

She was greener than the grass we layed on...
Underneath that Alabama sun...
I guess she should have known...
that old highway was my home...
and she never should have listened to my song."
 
Literary-Genious?

I would have to agree with you about Chris Cornell.I would truly include his name,with honour,on my list of top song-writers.Among others I would have to also include:Ozzy(The Prince of Darkness),Roger Waters(phenominal lyrics),Ronnie James Dio(mystery and rainbows),and if you really want deep...the late,great Layne Staley.Just to name a very,select few.These are the true literary-genious's that have influenced me with my own song-writing efforts. :cool:
 
Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon). I think he might be one of the most under-rated songwriters ever. Everyone remembers Blind Melon for "No Rain" (and that bumble-bee girl), but very few people appriciate how good a writer Hoon was. Here are some samples I like:


Part of "Tones of Home"

And I always thought this would be
the land of milk and honey
Oh but I came to find out that it's
all hate and money
And there's a canopy of greed holding me down.

Part of "I Wonder"

Hey I'd like to daze away to a
Place like no one has known
In a state of mind I could call mine
That only I could own
Where I could hum a tune anytime
I choose, and then there is no such thing as time
Where I can feel no pain just calm and sane
What a place for one to find
Now you see I'm watching everything
I do and they're watching everything I say
Why wont they leave me be?
Why am I even here? I wonder
You leave me wondering
Won't you stop watching me
I said they're watching me, watching me, watching me
Now in my corner I got the ceiling in my eyes
Arms holding up my knees
And rocking back and forth my life
I didn't mean to feel this way
When I walked into the door, Lord
Then they ripped away my memories
And I cant remember who I was before.
And I only wanted to be 16 and free.

Part of "Holly Man"

I met a Holyman that said that he knew the way
And he'd like to show me so my life won't go astray
Take my hand child now little boy don't you be afraid
I'll take your soul and walk on water
Holyman, ya don't understand
The cuts on me they run much deeper
Holyman, you righteous man
I've been shown the way a thousand times
Not one a keeper
Older man he said I'll tell you boy
You've planted rotten seeds
And in a land of happiness
They'll grow us evil trees
Guided minds, and eyes that will never see
Holyman I'll tell you
Just what it is that I believe
Holyman I tell you man you gotta
Believe in what you see
Cause its you that corrupt us man and
Deep throat philosophy
I don't need your spells or the little
Games you try to pull on me
Come to think of it I don't need your religion
Gotta get away
I wish you would understand
Everybody prays
Let me find my own way



There's a lot more where that comes from. Those are all from the same album and are just a few of the great lines. It's a tragedy that Shannon Hoon passed away because I think he is among some of the best modern lyricists.

There's also Bob Dylan....but I don't think I could argue that he's under-rated since he's considered the best lyricist to ever live by many.
 
I totally agree about Layne. It's hard for me to listen to anything by AIC since his death. I knew back then that the lyrics were autobiographical, but listening to them now and knowing how it all ended... even thinking about it... it's haunting. I now have their entire collection and the Music Bank DVD and it just sits on a shelf, waiting for a day when it won't be too hard to listen to cries of agony from a dead man spiraling downward at warp speed. He foretold his own demise. Sometimes I feel like Nero for having enjoyed it.

Oddly, Nirvana doesn't doesn't have the same impact on me. It's just grown tiresome.
 
Shannon Hoon-- Unfortunately, I was one of the people turned off by the bumble-bee girl thing. I'll have to explore some Blind Mellon.
 
LimoWreck said:
MSHilarious... Big Dumb Sex is pre-Badmotorfinger. I agree the early writings are somewhat lacking in the depth department. After the death of Andrew Woods, Cornell started producing some very dark, thoughtful, introspective and socially-conscious work. That's one of the things I love most about the Seattle movement... there is this huge backstory behind all these bands and you can see the impact of the events transpiring in the work they produced.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree. Big Dumb Sex is very good parody. The rest of that album was pretty limited though. Still, I'm a big Soundgarden fan.

The post-Soundgarden Cornell . . . I just can't do it. I dunno about the lyrics; the music is so bad I can't listen.
 
Paul Westerberg

Frontman of the Replacements. Solo artist. Aka "Grandpaboy."

Paul coined the "rebel without a clue" lyric that Tom Petty macked for one of his hits. Paul said, "It miffed me a little, but only a little. I'd steal something back from him if I could find something I liked..." :)
 
Limowreck - I totally agreew with you...Chris Cornell is just a musical genius...period.
I've been a HUGE Soundgarden fan since I was 10 (when my brother played me Big Dumb Sex, no less ;))...12 years later I still love them! As soon as I read the header of this thread, I immediately thought of Chris Cornell...I'm very happy to know that I'm not the only one! :D
I also agree with the choice of Shannon Hoon...Blind Melon was amazing and I wish I got into them sooner than I did.

I would have to put John K. Sampson (spelling?) from the Weakerthans...he's just a natural at lyrics...I recommend anybody to listen to his lyrics...also I'm a really big fan of Mark Linkous from Sparklehorse. His lyrics are very cryptic and open to interpretation, but he is very good at bringing to mind very odd images.

Grab a song, or two from your friendly neighbourhood P2P program...and if you like (and you should like), buy the albums!

Glad to see that there are still people rep'sentin' the Seattle scene! :D
 
Ms. Hilarious... I have been banned from 2 Chris Cornell forums for saying that Euphoria Morning was god-awful and that Audioslave is listenable, but equally forgetable. People who got into Cornell post-Soundgarden are some of the most annoying fans you'll ever meet. They resent anything pre-EM. They have far less interest in the music than they have in his sex-appeal. And some of them are really crazy... fanatical. I met a girl who writes fan fiction about Cornell. *shudder* I never read her stuff, but from talking to her, I could tell "my heaving bosom" was a repeating phrase in her work. I have to forgive Cornell for song like "can't save me". It's got to be hard to have the kind of pressure to succeed he must have felt after Soundgarden. Still hard to forgive him for the frosted hair and Gap jeans with the back pockets in the front.

I'm not familiar with the Weakerthans.

I thought of including Screaming Trees in this list, but "Sweet Oblivion" is really the only album of theirs I could get into.
 
I just have to name Nick Cave here. He can hardly be called under-rated, for I consider him one of the best. This is one of my favourite lyrics, it's from the album Murder Ballads.

The Curse Of Millhaven

I live in a town called Millhaven
And it's small and it's mean and it's cold
But if you come around just as the sun goes down
You can watch the whole town turn to gold
It's around about then that I used to go a-roaming
Singing La la la la La la la lie
All God's children they all gotta die

My name is Loretta but I prefer Lottie
I'm closing in on my fifteenth year
And if you think you have seen a pair of eyes more green
Then you sure didn't see them around here
My hair is yellow and I'm always a-combing
La la la la La la la lie
Mama often told me we all got to die

You must have heard about The Curse Of Millhaven
How last Christmas Bill Blake's little boy didn't come home
They found him the next week in One Mile Creek
His head bashed in and his pockets full of stones
Well, just imagine all the wailing and moaning
La la la la La la la lie
Even little Billy Blake, he had to die

Then Professor O'Rye from Millhaven High
Found nailed to his door his prize-winning terrier
Then next day the old fool brought little Biko to school
And we all had to watch as he buried her
His eulogy to Biko had all the tears a-flowing
La la la la La la la lie
Even God's little creatures, they have to die

Our little town fell into a state of shock
A lot of people were saying things that made little sense
Then the next thing you know the head of Handyman Joe
Was found in the fountain of the Mayor's residence
Foul play can really get a small town going
La la la la La la la lie
Even God's children all have to die

Then, in a cruel twist of fate, old Mrs Colgate
Was stabbed but the job was not complete
The last thing she said before the cops pronounced her dead
Was, 'My killer is Loretta and she lives across the street!'
Twenty cops burst through my door without even phoning
La la la la La la la lie
The young ones, the old ones, they all gotta die

Yes, it is I, Lottie. The Curse Of Millhaven
I've struck horror in the heart of this town
Like my eyes ain't green and my hair ain't yellow
It's more like the other way around
I gotta pretty little mouth underneath all the foaming
La la la la La la la lie
Sooner or later we all gotta die

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they've been saying I was evil
That if 'bad' was a boot that I'd fit it
That I'm a wicked young lady, but I've been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I'm a monster! I admit it!
It makes me so mad my blood really starts a-going
La la la la La la la lie
Mama always told me that we all gotta die

Yeah, I drowned the Blakey kid, stabbed Mrs. Colgate, I admit
Did the handyman with his circular saw in his garden shed
But I never crucified little Biko, that was two junior high school psychos
Stinky Bohoon and his friend with the pumpkin-sized head
I'll sing to the lot, now you got me going
La la la la La la la lie
All God's children have all gotta die

There were all the others, all our sisters and brothers
You assumed were accidents, best forgotten
Recall the children who broke through the ice on Lake Tahoo
Everyone assumed the 'Warning' signs had followed them to the bottom
Well, they're underneath the house where I do quite a bit of stowing
La la la la La la la lie
Even twenty little children, they had to die

And the fire of '91 that razed the Bella Vista slum
There was the biggest shit-fight this country's ever seen
Insurance companies ruined, land lords getting sued
All cause of wee little girl with a can of gasoline
Those flames really roared when the wind started blowing
La la la la La la la lie
Rich man, poor man, all got to die

Well I confessed to all these crimes and they put me on trial
I was laughing when they took me away
Off to the asylum in an old black Mariah
It ain't home, but you know, it's fucking better than jail
It ain't such bad old place to have a home in
La la la la La la la lie
All God's children they all gotta die

Now I got shrinks that will not rest with their endless Rorschach tests
I keep telling them they're out to get me
They ask me if I feel remorse and I answer, 'Why of course!
There is so much more I could have done if they'd let me!'
So it's Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy
Singing La la la la La la la lie
All God's children they all have to die
La la la la La la la lie
I'm happy as a lark and everything is fine
Singing La la la la La la la lie
Yeah, everything is groovy and everything is fine
Singing La la la la La la la lie
All God's children they gotta die

Sorry, it's very long, but worth reading.
 
Koroshiya... Are there still p2p programs out there? I gave up on Limewire years ago.

I could use some new music. I recently paid $18 to replace my copy of "Hail to the Thief" (Radiohead) at Strawberry's. That's just to god damned much to pay for a cd.

Oh Yeah! Thom York... Radiohead. He's pretty great... even if he does steal the occasional line of lyrics. Amnesiac was a brilliant album.
 
OneRoomStudios said:
There's also Bob Dylan....but I don't think I could argue that he's under-rated since he's considered the best lyricist to ever live by many.
Click to expand...

Allthough he may be considered the best ever, I still think he's under-rated. He should be called GOD!
 
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