Two questions about "fattening" sound.

  • Thread starter Thread starter RandomHero
  • Start date Start date
RandomHero

RandomHero

New member
'Ello gentlemen.

Two quick questions:

1) A "singer" im recording wants his voice to sound fuller. currently having him "sing" into a AKG 220 which im rather pleased with (for the money). i was thinking of doing the following. how about i have him sing into a sm57 thats wicked close for proximity effect, and then the AKG 220 about a foot away (double micing him)?

would this sound like shit, or make his voice bigger?

2) Working on recording a young metal band. It pains my ears, but the little kids really know their shit. boy can they play. (they made sure to let me know they wern't "scene kids" or "emo".. they described themselves as a modern day pantera.. whoever they are.) but anyways, their takes are wonderful and clean, but there is only one guitar player in the band who isnt satisfied with the sound. he's describing it as thin. so i was wondering if the following would work:

Guitar>morley A/b/y box

line a> DI Saffire pro 40 > Pod farm distortion effects

line b> marshal 4x12 >sm57 > saffire pro 40

would this sound decent? or make it muddy or cluttered?

thanks men. appreciate all your input.
 
1) Try some different techniques. I would rather have both mics at the same distance from the source.

2) Double track rather than split. Have him do a second take which you can layer with the first take. Also, try double micing the amp with one in the normal position and one out in the room.
 
A lot of things can be "fattened"by double tracking. If they're good, this shouldn't be a problem for them, if they're not, they'll learn they have a way to go. Different mics / amps etc all help. Experiment.

What type of guitar is the guitarist playing?
 
alright, that sounds fine, but it arises a few more questions

for number 1, wont the SM lose proximity effect and therefore the big booming sound we are looking for? or are you saying i should close mic with the condenser?

for number 2, that sounds fine. double micing sounds good. the only problem i would have with doing second take on top of it is having it sound very very close to the original. luckily this kid will probably be able to nail it but you never know. sometimes you get THAT TAKE...

is there anything inherently wrong with splitting?
 
guitarist is playing a Godin freeway classic. (how funny! a jazz guitar for metal??) but lemme tell you. it sounds pretty good when he plugs it in to that marshal 4x12. not much of a metal enthusiast, but the tone is pretty clean, in a dirty way, if you catch my drift, hahahaha.
 
Have you tried simply doing some EQ adjustment to the existing "thin" tracks. It sounds like you are almost there...so a touch of EQ boost in the low-mids (experiment with frequencies and levels) should easily fill out the vocal sound.
AFA the thin guitar, EQ may also fix it...but I would go with a ribbon mic if you have one instead of the 57, since ribbon mics automatically give you more meat in your tone, and if anything, you'll end up rolling the low end *off* a little...but IMO, I like rolling off rather than trying to add too much to fix EQ problems.

And you know...if you do have a ribbon, let the singer also try it (use a pop filter). Same thing will happen, you'll get a nice thick sound.
If you don't have one and want to buy one fairly cheap but decent sound --- Cascade Fat Head II - $175
 
RandomHero said:
alright, that sounds fine, but it arises a few more questions

for number 1, wont the SM lose proximity effect and therefore the big booming sound we are looking for? or are you saying i should close mic with the condenser?

for number 2, that sounds fine. double micing sounds good. the only problem i would have with doing second take on top of it is having it sound very very close to the original. luckily this kid will probably be able to nail it but you never know. sometimes you get THAT TAKE...

is there anything inherently wrong with splitting?
Click to expand...

Try stuff.
 
miroslav, that mic looks amazing. i think i'll have to invest in one. and thank for the tip. ill mess around with the EQ.
 
RandomHero said:
is there anything inherently wrong with splitting?
Click to expand...

Not inherently, no. The advantage of multi-tracking is that the takes will be slightly different. Those imperceptible, microsecond differences between takes make a bigger, fatter sound.
 
RandomHero said:
alright, that sounds fine, but it arises a few more questions

for number 1, wont the SM lose proximity effect and therefore the big booming sound we are looking for? or are you saying i should close mic with the condenser?

for number 2, that sounds fine. double micing sounds good. the only problem i would have with doing second take on top of it is having it sound very very close to the original. luckily this kid will probably be able to nail it but you never know. sometimes you get THAT TAKE...

is there anything inherently wrong with splitting?
Click to expand...

#1 - if you have the mics spaced apart on a voice you run a real risk of phase issues. I think double tracking would be a better approach. To sync up the takes, you can either record a bunch of takes and comp them together into the two you'll use. Or you can punch in the spots that aren't in sync.

#2 - for syncing takes on a double tracked guitar use the same approach.

Is there anything inherently wrong in splitting? I suppose not, but it won't fill out a sound in the same way that true double tracking will.
 
RandomHero said:
is there anything inherently wrong with splitting?
Click to expand...

Yes. The problem is that the two signals would be too similar and that leads to the problem of phase interactions. They start out as identical signals then are altered in ways that make them consistently out of phase, which is heard as comb filtering. If you do two takes instead then any phase interactions are transitory and not heard as comb filtering.
 
Try adding a double or triple tracked guitar part with a clean guitar. Ex.) Guitars one and two distorted and panned to taste and guitar three clean and in the middle. Bring up the clean part just enough to add some clarity and punch, it shouldn't be loud enough that you can pick it out.
 
I always do at least two guitar tracks with metal. Do the first take then have him double the guitar track exactly the same. Then hard pan the guitars left and right and listen to the sound come alive. Even if the guitar parts are a little off it will lend to the " fatness "
of the sound. Experiment with panning. I do four tracks for heavy guitars and pan them 100% left/right for a more mid range sound then I rerecord two more tracks and eq it with more low end. Pan those around 75% left/right and bring the volume down in the mix. Dont over do volume on the tracks just mess with the tracks until the sound sits in the mix where you need it. This will thicken the guitar sound and will sound alot like pantera. Those guys guitar sound is amazing and for metal doubling guitar tracks is the way to go. Also cut back on gain. I have found that a big misconception with recording heavy guitar tracks is crank the gain and its heavy. It dont work like that in a recording situation. Use just enough to get the " chug " or " chunk " and thats enough. The doubling will bring out the metal.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
1) Try some different techniques. I would rather have both mics at the same distance from the source.

2) Double track rather than split. Have him do a second take which you can layer with the first take. Also, try double micing the amp with one in the normal position and one out in the room.
Click to expand...

also, fat sound often comes from having the bass guitar double the guitar part (obviously playing the bottom notes only). that is why led zep sounded heavy when page's guitar parts often were quite thin on their own.
 
I'd really like to hear some Metal clips of your work.

offcenter2005 said:
I always do at least two guitar tracks with metal. Do the first take then have him double the guitar track exactly the same. Then hard pan the guitars left and right and listen to the sound come alive. Even if the guitar parts are a little off it will lend to the " fatness "
of the sound. Experiment with panning. I do four tracks for heavy guitars and pan them 100% left/right for a more mid range sound then I rerecord two more tracks and eq it with more low end. Pan those around 75% left/right and bring the volume down in the mix. Dont over do volume on the tracks just mess with the tracks until the sound sits in the mix where you need it. This will thicken the guitar sound and will sound alot like pantera. Those guys guitar sound is amazing and for metal doubling guitar tracks is the way to go. Also cut back on gain. I have found that a big misconception with recording heavy guitar tracks is crank the gain and its heavy. It dont work like that in a recording situation. Use just enough to get the " chug " or " chunk " and thats enough. The doubling will bring out the metal.
Click to expand...
 
Id also like to add that be real careful where your lows are with guitar. Dont fight the kick and bass guitar for frequency range. i still have trouble taking out low end on guitar tracks because im a guitar player and love that thick sound but in the mix that turns into mud! Ill post a link to a track i recorded. It is nowhere near finished and It doesn't have any bass guitar or vocals yet but you will get the idea.



Song-22 by offcenter2005 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top